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How much should 5e aim at balance?
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<blockquote data-quote="Magil" data-source="post: 6013916" data-attributes="member: 6672353"><p>Saying they are "meaningless" was a bit of an oversimplification, I agree. However, where there are choices, optimization will exist--I can't help but feel that will be the case, always, for the kinds of games I want to play. There will always be choices that are better than other choices, and the only way to stop that from happening is to remove choice altogether. And I strongly feel that choices should mean something within the system, not just the story.</p><p></p><p>I don't know if I'd say that pleasure derived from the mechanical aspects of gameplay is my principal source of enjoyment in playing/DMing these games, but even if it were for someone, I do not feel it's for others to judge whether they're "missing out" or what not. I do know that it's largely why I got into it, and where I tend to devote the largest amount of my efforts. In any case, I feel my way of enjoying the game is just as legitimate as anyone else's.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Considering I doubt you have any non-antecedental numbers to back anything like this up, this is hearsay at best.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not at all, it has nothing to do with the players. In fact, 4th edition has some massive imbalances. They're just the kinds if imbalances I can live with. For example, really terrible powers exist alongside amazing powers, and so-narrowly-situational-it-hurts feats exist alongside "any character can use this, often!" feats. You can still screw up your character, hard, in DnD 4E. Of course, built-in retraining rules and an overall more forgiving system help to deal with that. More importantly to me, however, class imbalance isn't a major issue. Characters will generally have equal opportunity to contribute, despite being very different, with minimal fudging from the DM required.</p><p></p><p>Further, I don't find 4E generic at all. I've played several games, and been DMing one for more than a year now. Each experience has been very different, and every time a player changes or returns or whatever, things become very different in feel and play, both from a storytelling perspective and a mechanical perspective. I also played a fair amount of 3rd edition before the switch, and I have no desire to go back to that style of gameplay--I knew 4th edition was way better for my way of playing from the very start.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Magil, post: 6013916, member: 6672353"] Saying they are "meaningless" was a bit of an oversimplification, I agree. However, where there are choices, optimization will exist--I can't help but feel that will be the case, always, for the kinds of games I want to play. There will always be choices that are better than other choices, and the only way to stop that from happening is to remove choice altogether. And I strongly feel that choices should mean something within the system, not just the story. I don't know if I'd say that pleasure derived from the mechanical aspects of gameplay is my principal source of enjoyment in playing/DMing these games, but even if it were for someone, I do not feel it's for others to judge whether they're "missing out" or what not. I do know that it's largely why I got into it, and where I tend to devote the largest amount of my efforts. In any case, I feel my way of enjoying the game is just as legitimate as anyone else's. Considering I doubt you have any non-antecedental numbers to back anything like this up, this is hearsay at best. Not at all, it has nothing to do with the players. In fact, 4th edition has some massive imbalances. They're just the kinds if imbalances I can live with. For example, really terrible powers exist alongside amazing powers, and so-narrowly-situational-it-hurts feats exist alongside "any character can use this, often!" feats. You can still screw up your character, hard, in DnD 4E. Of course, built-in retraining rules and an overall more forgiving system help to deal with that. More importantly to me, however, class imbalance isn't a major issue. Characters will generally have equal opportunity to contribute, despite being very different, with minimal fudging from the DM required. Further, I don't find 4E generic at all. I've played several games, and been DMing one for more than a year now. Each experience has been very different, and every time a player changes or returns or whatever, things become very different in feel and play, both from a storytelling perspective and a mechanical perspective. I also played a fair amount of 3rd edition before the switch, and I have no desire to go back to that style of gameplay--I knew 4th edition was way better for my way of playing from the very start. [/QUOTE]
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