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How much should 5e aim at balance?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6015124" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Words have meanings. And they mean what they mean. Not what you want them to mean. THe word you are missing is <em>most</em>.</p><p></p><p>Just to expand on Billd91's point, <a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a" target="_blank">the official 3.5 FAQ can be found here</a>. And is very clear and consistent in explaining that everyone else in this thread is right and you are wrong.</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>The entries for all the golems in the MM say that golems</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>have magic immunity, which is supposed to allow golems to</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>completely resist most magical and supernatural effects</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>except for specific ones listed in each golem’s description.</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>(Most of those heal, slow, or damage the golem.) Can you</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>cast beneficial spells on a golem? For example, can you turn</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>a golem invisible? Can you teleport one? Could you cast</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>darkness on a golem? How about fly or reverse gravity? To</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>put it another way, if you are not trying to directly cause</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>damage or drastically alter the golem (such as with</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>polymorph), will the spell work? Clearly, if you cast</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>darkness on yourself and the golem attacks you, once it</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>moves into the area of darkness, it can no longer see you.</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>But can you cast darkness on the golem? Could a golem use</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>a magic item, such as a ring of invisibility?</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>As noted in each golem’s entry, a golem resists any spell or</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. (In previous</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>versions of the D&D game, golems were impervious to most</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>supernatural effects as well, but that is no longer the case.)</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">[Snip for length]</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>The golem description in the MM says that golems are</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>immune to magic, but the individual golem descriptions say</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>they’re only immune to spells or spell-like abilities that</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>allow spell resistance. Which one is right?</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>The “immunity to magic” entry in the opening text of the</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>golem entry (page 134 of the MM) is only a general description</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>of that special quality. Each golem’s specific immunity to</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>magic entry provides the actual rules mechanics for</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>adjudicating that immunity.</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">For example, a clay golem is immune to fireball (because</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">that spell allows spell resistance), but not to Melf’s acid arrow</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">(because it doesn’t allow spell resistance). It would be immune</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">to disintegrate, except for the special note that follows</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">indicating the effect of a disintegrate spell on a clay golem</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Do conjuration spells such as Evard’s black tentacles</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>have an effect on golems?</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>The easiest way to find out if a golem is affected by a spell</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>is to check the spell to see if it allows spell resistance; if it does,</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>then the golem is immune to the spell.</u> Many conjuration</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">spells—including Evard’s black tentacles—do not allow for</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">spell resistance, so they would work normally against a golem</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Can a dragon’s breath weapon harm a golem?</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Yes. Although the golem main entry describes “immunity</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">to magic” as granting immunity to “most magical and</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">supernatural effects,”<u>individual golem entries clearly state that it applies only to “any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance.”</u> Thus, golems are affected normally by a dragon’s breath weapon unless the golem’s entry states otherwise.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Are golems immune to the warlock’s eldritch blast?</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Since it is a spell-like ability that allows spell resistance,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">golems are immune to the warlock’s eldritch blast. The</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">warlock who faces a clay golem with nothing but his eldritch</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">blast is in just as much trouble as the sorcerer with nothing but</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">magic missile and lightning bolt in his arsenal. <u>The vitriolic</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>blast eldritch essence invocation (CAr, page 136) allows the</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>warlock to overcome this problem, since vitriolic blast ignores</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>spell resistance.</u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><u></u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>The FAQ is completely in line with the rules of 3.5. And is part of the official rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6015124, member: 87792"] Words have meanings. And they mean what they mean. Not what you want them to mean. THe word you are missing is [I]most[/I]. Just to expand on Billd91's point, [URL="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a"]the official 3.5 FAQ can be found here[/URL]. And is very clear and consistent in explaining that everyone else in this thread is right and you are wrong. [INDENT][B]The entries for all the golems in the MM say that golems have magic immunity, which is supposed to allow golems to completely resist most magical and supernatural effects except for specific ones listed in each golem’s description. (Most of those heal, slow, or damage the golem.) Can you cast beneficial spells on a golem? For example, can you turn a golem invisible? Can you teleport one? Could you cast darkness on a golem? How about fly or reverse gravity? To put it another way, if you are not trying to directly cause damage or drastically alter the golem (such as with polymorph), will the spell work? Clearly, if you cast darkness on yourself and the golem attacks you, once it moves into the area of darkness, it can no longer see you. But can you cast darkness on the golem? Could a golem use a magic item, such as a ring of invisibility?[/B] [U]As noted in each golem’s entry, a golem resists any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. (In previous versions of the D&D game, golems were impervious to most supernatural effects as well, but that is no longer the case.)[/U] [Snip for length] [/INDENT] [INDENT][B]The golem description in the MM says that golems are[/B] [B]immune to magic, but the individual golem descriptions say[/B] [B]they’re only immune to spells or spell-like abilities that[/B] [B]allow spell resistance. Which one is right?[/B] [U]The “immunity to magic” entry in the opening text of the golem entry (page 134 of the MM) is only a general description of that special quality. Each golem’s specific immunity to magic entry provides the actual rules mechanics for adjudicating that immunity.[/U] For example, a clay golem is immune to fireball (because that spell allows spell resistance), but not to Melf’s acid arrow (because it doesn’t allow spell resistance). It would be immune to disintegrate, except for the special note that follows indicating the effect of a disintegrate spell on a clay golem [B]Do conjuration spells such as Evard’s black tentacles have an effect on golems?[/B] [U]The easiest way to find out if a golem is affected by a spell is to check the spell to see if it allows spell resistance; if it does, then the golem is immune to the spell.[/U] Many conjuration spells—including Evard’s black tentacles—do not allow for spell resistance, so they would work normally against a golem [B]Can a dragon’s breath weapon harm a golem?[/B] Yes. Although the golem main entry describes “immunity to magic” as granting immunity to “most magical and supernatural effects,”[U]individual golem entries clearly state that it applies only to “any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance.”[/U] Thus, golems are affected normally by a dragon’s breath weapon unless the golem’s entry states otherwise. [/INDENT][INDENT][B]Are golems immune to the warlock’s eldritch blast?[/B] Since it is a spell-like ability that allows spell resistance, golems are immune to the warlock’s eldritch blast. The warlock who faces a clay golem with nothing but his eldritch blast is in just as much trouble as the sorcerer with nothing but magic missile and lightning bolt in his arsenal. [U]The vitriolic blast eldritch essence invocation (CAr, page 136) allows the warlock to overcome this problem, since vitriolic blast ignores spell resistance. [/U] [/INDENT]The FAQ is completely in line with the rules of 3.5. And is part of the official rules. [/QUOTE]
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