How much stuff do PCs have?

[Shalewind]

I've found in general that most PCs have far more equipment than the standard "Foe NPCs" presented in the DMG? They typically have far more gold and equipment than the starting gold statements in the DMG as well. In addition, their gold seems to be far better spent (on magical combos and items that tactically work well together).

So here is my question: What is the average gold ammount that a PC has? There is a wide gulf between a beefy 4th level guy and a poorly equipped 4th level guy. Where do most PCs equipment counts come in at?

 

[jensun]

PC Stuff

PC's equipment only gets out of hand if the GM allows it.

At the end of the day it comes down to the playing style of the group. The suggestions in the DMG are just that, suggestions. Having played in both high and low magic campaigns I can say that I enjoy both, but prefer low magic (at least itme wise) settings.

 

[chip079]

i agree that gold and items only get out of hand if the DM alows it. for example in the campain i am curently playing the average party lvl of the group is 4th, and we all found our first items at mid 3rd lvl, and are just now able to purchase items of minimal value at 4th lvl. basically the DM controls what and how much the party has. the only way a party can do so is if they activlly go out and look for nothing but encounters, and hope for the best. but even then the DM can just say " you find nothing." and if you are trying to raise what an npc has just add some bonuses to their exhisting equipment. hope this helps.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

I have been thinking about a related problem. What I want to avoid is a PC that has a half dozen magic items. It seems to me that your magic items should be few and precious.

My solution: see separate thread "Items with Opposed Alignment."

 

[ForceUser]

I have been thinking about a related problem. What I want to avoid is a PC that has a half dozen magic items. It seems to me that your magic items should be few and precious.

My solution: see separate thread "Items with Opposed Alignment."

Then you don't want to play D&D by core rules. I play in a weekly campaign as core-ruled as a game can get, and our 14th-level group has magic items out the wazoo. My character alone has, oh, 45 magic items when you count in her hoard of scrolls and potions. She has every wearable item slot filled, not to mention a miscellaneous items such as her Heward's Handy Haversack, her wand of Cat's Grace, her Scabbard of Keen Edges, etc. She's got all this, and according to my DM she's very near her target wealth for being 13th level.

The game is balanced with magic items in mind. If you start tinkering with wealth levels then you need to tune down monster CRs appropriately, and reconsider such things as energy immunites, Spell Resistance, and Damage Reduction, because monsters with those abilities were built ASSUMING like-leveled characters will have the appropriate gear to overcome or mitigate such obstacles. If your 7th level fighter in your low-magic world still doesn't have a +1 weapon and he's encountering monsters with damage reduction, you've screwed him. Plain and simple. I'm not trying to tell you how to run your games, just be advised that the core game is balanced with a certain level of magic items in mind. Reduce or remove those items and you need to tone down the encounters as well. Also, be aware, that as levels get on, spellcasters come into their own and start becoming insanely powerful. If your 16th level fighter is still toting his good ol' +1 sword in your low-magic world, then your wizard shouldn't be plane shifting and smacking people around with delayed blast fireball either. And now we're no longer talking about D&D, but some other d20 game.

Food for thought, is all. I like the idea of characters possessing only a few special magic items too, but the reality is that D&D is not balanced that way. Might I suggest Wheel of Time d20? That seems to be closer to what you're looking for.

 

[ATO_DM]

A few points.

1. The fact that PCs generally have more magic items than the NPCs in the DMG is what makes them PCs. The players have charted their characters and kept track of everything. The DMG NPCs are for quick referencing to cut down on prep work. They have what you need to know for a fight and nothing more.

2. There are other measures of wealth besides magic items. Your DMG NPC might not have all that many items, but would likely make up for that by having land and property.

3. Having characters with very few magic items IS playing by the core rules. Hopefully the PCs target wealth isn't attained primarily by the magic items he hauls around. Land, Property, Fame, Contacts, Followers, Favors (Mundane and Divine) are all perfectly acceptable equivalents to wealth.

4. Parties encountering things with Damage Reduction or Immunities that the players can't obviously overcome with their Magic Sword isn't screwing the party it's challenging them. Challenge ratings don't assume they'd necessarily have gear to overcome the obstacle. They could use spells (Clerical spells that give bonuses to weapons are nifty when encountering DR), OR they could use some quick thinking. Overcoming the Challenge of a monster doesn't mean the group is necessarily killing it, simply defeating it.

 

[ForceUser]

3. Having characters with very few magic items IS playing by the core rules. Hopefully the PCs target wealth isn't attained primarily by the magic items he hauls around. Land, Property, Fame, Contacts, Followers, Favors (Mundane and Divine) are all perfectly acceptable equivalents to wealth.

Hm. Worth considering. In truth, however, our characters in this particular campaign are itinerant adventurers who travel from one hot spot to the next at the behest of local powers. 100% of our character wealth is magic items and money. I know that a couple characters have mentioned in passing that they have families, and it is assumed that they own property, but these things are far in the background of the campaign and I am certain that the DM does not consider them a part of party wealth, but as distant background notes. Many of our characters are not from the area we adventure in and rarely return to our homelands. None of us are landed or nobility, no lower-level NPCs have sought us out for tutelage or guidance after hearing of our reputations, and local rulers generally treat us as advisors and troubleshooters, but not equals. In other words, land, property, fame, contacts, followers, and favors are not considered part of our characters' wealth in this campaign. The DM runs his homebrew much in the manner of the classic module-style format, and has already announced that he intends the campaign to run no longer than another year. When our characters have downtime they rent rooms at inns or live as guests of kings or wizards before moving on to the next adventure.

4. Parties encountering things with Damage Reduction or Immunities that the players can't obviously overcome with their Magic Sword isn't screwing the party it's challenging them. Challenge ratings don't assume they'd necessarily have gear to overcome the obstacle. They could use spells (Clerical spells that give bonuses to weapons are nifty when encountering DR), OR they could use some quick thinking. Overcoming the Challenge of a monster doesn't mean the group is necessarily killing it, simply defeating it.

I respectfully disagree. The game assumes in the CR of a monster that a properly-equipped like-leveled group of adventurers should be able to overcome that obstacle. If you lower a party's magical options, you should bump up the monster's CR. Sure, there are many ways for clever adventurers to defeat a powerful foe, but at the end of the day you're going to be relying on your sword far more than your wits. You can't talk your way out of every fight. If you reduce the amount of options available to the players, you must do likewise for the monsters.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

If your 7th level fighter in your low-magic world still doesn't have a +1 weapon and he's encountering monsters with damage reduction, you've screwed him. Plain and simple. ....
I like the idea of characters possessing only a few special magic items too, but the reality is that D&D is not balanced that way. Might I suggest Wheel of Time d20? That seems to be closer to what you're looking for.

I never meant to suggest that players should have less cumulative magic-item power. I want to restrict the QUANTITY of magic items, not the QUALITY of them.

A character that is virtually wrapped in magic is to me much less classy than a character who has one more powerful, more interesting item and only a couple of minor wondrous items in addition.

 

[ForceUser@Home]

I understand what you're saying, but believe me, a +2 cloak of protection here and a potion of fire resistance there have gone a long way toward increasing the survivability of my character over the course of the campaign. Seriously. I can think of several occasions where my character would have been toast if I hadn't had access to such items. D&D is set up to allow your players the opportunity to have the right item at the right time. Your PC's cool, powerful, interesting magic sword is neat and all, but it's not going to save him verses those sticky situations that disposable magic items are intended to help in.

Just something to consider when you're planning your next campaign. Why don't you ask your players and see what they prefer? That's probably the most important consideration of all.

 

[Romotre]

Oodles. Players (esp. high Str characters) tend to carry something for EVERY occasion.