How Much Would a Castle Cost?

[Zardnaar]

I have some level 4 and 5 PCs in a Castles and Crusades Game and a prepublished adventure has a philosophers stone in it which transmutes iron or lead into 50-250k of gp. I'm thinking it is enough to buy a smnall keep along the lines of the one in B2: Keep on the Borderlands.

The idea is that this keep and lands will generate income for the party and function as a home base. Note that while they are not name level the Knight is treated as 4 levels higher so he is level 9 for purposes of income AFAIK. So 50-250 what can an aspiring baron get for that?

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, using the Basic D&D costs

100' of castle wall costs 5,000 gp
The gate and 2 towers around the entrance (Barbican) cost 40,000
Wooden Buildings cost 1,500 gp (2 story, 30x30)
Stone Buildings cost 3,000 gp (2 story, 30x30)
30 foot tall 30' round tower costs 30,000 gp
30 foot tall 20' round tower costs 15,000 gp
Half-round towers (like on the corners) cost 7,500 gp
The inner keep costs 75,000 gp (that's 80 feet tall, 60 feet by 60 feet)

So maybe, depending on what sort of keep you wanted.

 

[Yora]

I just made this list only half an hour ago:

Small House: 50 gp (10x10 ft.; single room)
Medium House: 300 gp (15x30 ft.; single room or 3 to 8 of various size)
Large House: 2,000 gp (30x30 ft. on two floors each)
Small Farm: 500 gp (medium house plus small barn/stable)
Medium Farm: 2,500 gp (large house, small house, barn, stable)
Large Farm: 10,000 gp (large house, 3 to 6 small houses, 3 barns, stable)
Small Hill Fort: 5,000 gp (2 ha; wooden palisade, 4 watchtowers, large house, 4 medium houses, various small houses)
Medium Hill Fort: 10,000 gp (6 ha; wooden palisade, drawbridge, 6 watchtowers, 2 large houses, 12 medium houses, various small houses)
Large Hill Fort: (18 ha) 20,000 gp (18 ha; wooden palisade, drawbridge, 10 watchtowers, 3 large houses, 36 medium houses, various small houses)
Keep: 75,000 gp
Castle: 200,000 gp

It's based on the prices given in Adventurer, Conqueror, King.

 

[trancejeremy]

It's based on the prices given in Adventurer, Conqueror, King.

Which are literally from BECMI D&D. The whole economic system is lifted from it.

 

[Zardnaar]

I just made this list only half an hour ago:

Small House: 50 gp (10x10 ft.; single room)
Medium House: 300 gp (15x30 ft.; single room or 3 to 8 of various size)
Large House: 2,000 gp (30x30 ft. on two floors each)
Small Farm: 500 gp (medium house plus small barn/stable)
Medium Farm: 2,500 gp (large house, small house, barn, stable)
Large Farm: 10,000 gp (large house, 3 to 6 small houses, 3 barns, stable)
Small Hill Fort: 5,000 gp (2 ha; wooden palisade, 4 watchtowers, large house, 4 medium houses, various small houses)
Medium Hill Fort: 10,000 gp (6 ha; wooden palisade, drawbridge, 6 watchtowers, 2 large houses, 12 medium houses, various small houses)
Large Hill Fort: (18 ha) 20,000 gp (18 ha; wooden palisade, drawbridge, 10 watchtowers, 3 large houses, 36 medium houses, various small houses)
Keep: 75,000 gp
Castle: 200,000 gp

It's based on the prices given in Adventurer, Conqueror, King.

Ok thanks, I have ACKs so I can ahve a dig through it.

 

[evileeyore]

Whatever you need it to cost.

How much resources do you need to strip from the party? Some, Most, All, or More Than They Have?

The Castle, lands, titles, right to tax, etc should cost what you need it to cost to fit the flow of your game.

 

[Grydan]

A (possibly not all that helpful) counterpoint:

How much would a castle cost? If we're talking an in place, in good repair, defensible keep with accompanying lands and supporting farms and settlements from which it derives income? Priceless. Not for sale.

These are the sorts of things that are in the hands of the aristocracy, passed down from generation to generation. There's no lump-sum payment high enough to get the current residents to sell (and they may not even be allowed to even if they were willing, as the land was likely granted to their family by someone higher up the ladder who has claim to it should the existing claimants and their heirs die without issue).

The costs are for building a new castle, on unsettled land. It likely has a negative net income: it takes years and a great deal of money to build it, and for a long time self-sufficiency is going to be the goal rather than profitability. Your taxes are likely collected in chickens, pigs, goats, and manual labour rather than in gold. It's not until the surrounding settlements start producing more goods than they (and those building the castle) need that you start to earn any sort of income that you measure in gold pieces (presuming that there's a market for whatever local goods they're producing).

More money can speed up the process somewhat, but with diminishing returns (and potentially negative consequences). There's only so many folks willing and able to relocate to your new settlements, and cash incentives might increase those numbers, but risk pissing off neighbouring barons whose populations you're depleting. And they have finished castles, and the income to afford to be able to do something about the upstart.

The ideal (if rather contrived) situation is one in which a well-maintained keep in a settled and developed area has just lost its resident lord along with all potential heirs, and the duke or king or whoever further up the chain that the land reverts to either owes the players a favour or is looking to refill their coffers and is willing to grant the lands and keep in return for a healthy donation to the cause.

 

[Zardnaar]

I ended up charging them 150 000gp for the castle and the Knight is treated as 4 levels higher for tax income. They hit level 5 and annual income is apparently going to be 75000 gp. The closest towns are a village of 300 and town of 2000. Last nights session was ore or less trying to figure out how to use the philosophers stone as turning the metal into gold was not hard but getting it turned into coins was.

They had also found an Imperial Knights signet ring and returned that to gain favour to gain a grant of land on the borders and they hired a work crew to build said castle somewhere. The next adventure in the series actually deals with one of the local barons who is a bit nuts/evil and they can find a site to build the castle on.

 

[tomBitonti]

Well, nobles, and the king, are all probably hurting for gold all of the time.

If you have favorable relations with the king (hopefully you didn't just sack the his summer palace, or show up the his champion in the recent fair), one would think that a deal could be made to "donate" a healthy sum of gold in exchange for a castle and land to go along with it.

There would of course be a duty of providing defense to the king when requested, and perhaps the king would lean heavily knowing you had gold to burn.

There are all sorts of campaign possibilities: A baron back on his obligations forced out his castle, in the field organizing brigands to overthrow the new castle owners. A lady of the prior owners married to one of the players to give them a hint of nobility to make the new ownership valid, but who has a dark history. Festering monsters or thieves or cultists in the area, due to lack oversight, due to the prior owners poor finances. Bad harvests. An invading group of barbarians keen on relieving you of your gold. An important delegation of elves who decide to cross through your new lands ...

Thx!

TomB

 

[Celebrim]

In general, I use the following quick method of figuring out the price of anything.

Take the price of the nearest equivalent IRL good - usually a hand made good of some sort.

Divide the price in dollars by 50.

This is the price in whatever the base medium of exchange is in your game world. For most D&D worlds, this would be gold pieces.

So, for example, your price of 150,000 g.p. translates to a price of 7.5 million dollars. That's certainly in the ball park of what I'd expect for a basic baronial castle.

If you are going to give them a robust income from taxation, make sure you levy maintenance costs for properties and employees. Otherwise, the income you cite is too large for the size of the governed population. Maintenance fees for a castle property are probably about 1% of the cost of the property per month once you factor in servants, wood burned, candles burned, roof repair, etc.