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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ken-ichi" data-source="post: 3077268" data-attributes="member: 20061">Nice creative thinking on your part QuaziquestDM. Just to play devil's advocate, I can think of some basic ways of still presenting a challenge should the DM want to prevent you from 'breaking' the module without nullifying the great ideas completely.The bridge with the thoqquas is great. I don't know the Red Hand module so I am unaware of how successfully completing the mission resulted in breaking the module, unless it was intended that some of the enemy were to cross the bridge or fight you while you were taking out the bridge. SNA takes an entire round to cast so there was ample oppertunity for the enemy to use ranged weapons or spells to disrupt your casting.In the ruined forge. The Iron Defenders could have climbed the shelving or walls inside and lept at the people at the edge of the hole. A successful trip or grapple attack should give a chance of pulling the person in, or at least force a Balance check to see if they can stay on the roof.  Still not too easy for the Iron Defenders, but allows the encounter to still be run and rewards the players for smart thinking.When I ran that module the party did a similar thing so I had the iron defenders upon being attacked and not being able to reach the enemy take full cover until someone entered the building at which point they rushed to attack.higher diviner to scry on mission location, which is marked on outdated map....and learn that they are heading to camp of the Lord of Blades.......I am assuming the camp of the Lord of Blades lies within the Mournlands. If so the DM would be perfectly justified to say sorry, the divinations reveal nothing or even send you on a horribly wrong direction. Magic in the Mournlands is anything but predictable and reliable. So for a perfectly valid in game reason he could direct you to the guide if he wanted.Alternatively, many mid to high level modules are built assuming that you can and will make use of divinations like this, so I hardly see using options like these as breaking the module.The undead dungeon with the porticullis:1: Dunguen supposed to be inescapaible once entered due to locking portacellus.....If the dungeon is supposed to be inescapable, then the porticullis should have had reinforcement even up to being coated with walls of force. Any character can power attack his way through a normal porticullis in a few rounds.2: Every spotted trap or puzzle stoneshapped overI did not see a rogue in your group. How did you manage to spot all these traps. Only rogues (and a few other classes) have the Trap Finding ability. Most of which are perfectly able to disable the traps without expending a spell slot. Also some traps could be setup to trigger when being tampered with such as being stone shaped over. Again not module breaking.Most puzzles should be designed IMHO to give you an advantage if you solve them, not be required to acomplish the mission. So using Stone Shape to bypass these would not result in any benefit.A radiant servant of pelor or just a normal cleric with the sun domain who is allowed to rest to regain his greater turns is going to rock in an undead based dungeon. The combination of greater turning with the resting allowed by letting the porticullis to be destroyed despite the area supposedly being inescapable made these encounters much easier than intended by the module. Clerics are designed to kick butt when fighting undead, so expect it.Stoneshape and Wall of Stone are not guaranteed protection from residents attacking while you rest. They often will give you warning as the banging down of the wall that was not there yesterday alerts the group.A competent melee type can often get through that wall in a round or two.A guess my main point is that I am not sure that any of these points you brought up were caused by the players 'breaking' the module. Some of them at least seem to be from an unwillingness to take up the reins of the game and run with it.</blockquote>

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