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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 9534569" data-attributes="member: 29398">Which points us right back toward the idea of players simply declaring success without adversity, which I seem to recall you've already said is not the point.  It's pretty binary: you either can always get what you want or you cannot.Absent the idea of tie or stalemates, games have winners and losers.  In many games and almost all sports this winner-loser status is decided just once, at the game's end; while in D&D that status is defined and redefined constantly during play of the same game over months or years or even decades.Winners get rewarded in numerous ways in D&D: they gain xp, they gain treasure, and they get to keep playing the same character(s).  That's a series of strong incentives to win, and to keep on winning.If losers also get to claim these same rewards, however, the incentive to succeed (a.k.a. win) goes away and any threats or adversity quickly and obviously become fake.  A threat is not a threat unless the threatener (in this case, the DM as bound by the game rules) is ready willing and able to follow up on that threat.</blockquote>