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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9534763" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Why do you need to be so aggressive and hostile? Why do you need to make jabs like "quicksand foundation" and "endless goalpost shifting", neither of which is even remotely accurate to anything I've said in this thread? I've always been very specific and explicit about what I want, why I want it, how I get it, and what effects this has. Folks like you are the ones who have made it their mission to show how I'm actually destroying the game and telling lies and "goalpost shifting" etc., etc., because you have no actual argument, just a lot of ad hominem attacks.My players don't need to "be lifting" any "weight" to find interesting consequences. Finding interesting consequences IS playing Dungeon World. There is no gap between doing the gameplay of DW and finding interesting consequences. That's the whole point.It's not weird. It's quite normal. You ask what the players care about, and collaborate to tell stories that involve the things they care about. How is this hard? How is this even remotely "very much outside the norm"? Everyone cares about things. Find out some of those things, and work with them to include that stuff. Hell, I've had the players themselves be straight-up shocked by how much they got drawn into the emotion or impact of a moment, where they really were exercising protagonism, not just being a witness to someone else's prewritten unpublished novella.I absolutely, flatly refuse to be the kind of DM who just dictates a world at someone and strings them along for the plot I've already written. I also absolutely, flatly refuse to be the kind of DM who uses BS gotchas, oh-so-"funny" traps, and ruthlessly grueling experiences to "teach" my players to be cautious. They already are cautious! If I taught them to be any more cautious, they would stop taking any actions whatsoever!Instead, as always with Dungeon World, I (1) portray a fantastic world, (2) fill the characters' lives with adventure, and (3) play to find out what happens. As the rules explicitly instruct me to do.I have never, ever treated my players as "passive spectators to be entertained." I have 100% always treated my players as equal creators. You can get off your high horse and actually RESPOND to the things I say, rather than vilifying me as some sort of game-design boogeyman here to stomp on everything you hold dear.</blockquote>

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