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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9536886" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Sure.Since when were you (both general you and very specifically you you) so limited?I know for an absolute fact you have previously made arguments very specifically on the basis "who cares what the official rules are?"See above, but also, just...items can be taken away. That's a thing that can happen. It can happen for all sorts of reasons. Even if I did grant your "I as DM can only ever do what the explicit, official rules permit me to do, and absolutely nothing else!" argument, this is something the rules already permit.Apart from that though? Item saving throws are still a thing. Damage to items is still a thing. So even if I granted that argument, which I absolutely do not, the rules themselves really do support it!Sure, mostly because level loss is a death spiral, which is especially not fun for most players. Falling into a pit and being unable to ever dig yourself out, no matter how hard you work, because every thing that goes wrong digs the pit deeper, makes the pit's walls smoother, etc., etc., is just...it's not fun. Better to just end it quickly and be done with it rather than deal with that nonsense.And that's not even touching on how it makes everyone else's lives harder too. Including the GM!Nah. There are still plenty of permanent, mechanical consequences that aren't among those things.Being marked with a geas, for example. Or some other sort of powerful magical compulsion, such that a spell more powerful than remove curse is required to clear it. Greater restoration only comes online at 9th (character) level, that gives you plenty of space to play.A mindflayer tadpole, in the style of BG3, where the tadpoles don't immediately trigger ceremorphosis, but instead remain in suspension, turning tadpole'd people into mind-controlled servants. Other options (vampirism and lycanthropy come to mind) may exist as well.If humor is acceptable, a Freaky Friday situation where people exchange character sheets for a time. (Not too long, mind, because this can get tedious quickly, but a one- or two-session thing could be quite funny.) Other "jokey" consequences could be, for example, losing one prepared spell spot to a "useless" spell (which could also be seen as a challenge, "find a use for this 'useless' spell!"), having to use a cursed joke weapon (like an evil clown's cursed juggling clubs), or being forced into certain behaviors (e.g. "you must always move at least 5 feet left at the start of every turn, though you can move back again afterward")--a mild consequence, unless you have to wade through hordes of enemies with nasty opportunity attacks!A "beneficial" spell (so remove curse doesn't help) that causes you to flip whether you breathe water or air. Great for a single aquatic adventure. Terrible once you've actually finished that adventure and want to go back to dry land. Other "beneficial" spells that have serious downsides could also apply.Getting help from a powerful but mercurial force (e.g. fey nobility), who demand a price for each favor given. So maybe a character might lose their color vision, or proficiency with a type of armor/weapon, or take a penalty to a given type of saving throw, etc., with the sacrifices becoming more painful each time.I could probably come up with more. The vast majority of these are hardly any effort to implement, and I don't even think they'd be that hard if you switched back to 3e, where the math was absolutely at its most fiddly.</blockquote>

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