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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9542935" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Firstly, I find it extremely annoying that folks assert that this only occurs in OSR games, or that OSR games are somehow special for inviting or inducing such things. It doesn't only occur there. It's not in any way special to that. People can be inventive under any circumstances, and people can fall into unthinking rote responses under any circumstances. Gygax's annoyance with overly-fixed (because they were highly effective) SOPs is specifically why we got things like ear seekers, cloakers, and the &quot;so funny I forgot to laugh&quot; cursed items that look identical to magic items but punish you for putting them on. I, personally, have seen OSR folks just follow along with someone &quot;merely&quot; using their class features (specifically, a wizard using some relevant spells), in a way that obviated any need for inventive solutions. The only reason one could draw any association at all is because OSR-like games often just give the player so little to work with in the first place. (And if spells somehow get a special dispensation despite very much being a class feature....let's just say I have some choice words for that particular form of magic favoritism.)More importantly, why does it matter whether the inventiveness involves something on one specific part of the character sheet (ability scores and features, whether they be racial, class, feat, etc.), if you're totally okay with it using things from other parts of the character sheet (items, tools, hirelings/henchmen)? I don't understand why there's such a patronizing attitude toward ever using the features the game gave you. Inventiveness is inventiveness. We should encourage it anytime.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9542935, member: 6790260"] Firstly, I find it extremely annoying that folks assert that this only occurs in OSR games, or that OSR games are somehow special for inviting or inducing such things. It doesn't only occur there. It's not in any way special to that. People can be inventive under any circumstances, and people can fall into unthinking rote responses under any circumstances. Gygax's annoyance with overly-fixed (because they were highly effective) SOPs is specifically why we got things like ear seekers, cloakers, and the "so funny I forgot to laugh" cursed items that look identical to magic items but punish you for putting them on. I, personally, have seen OSR folks just follow along with someone "merely" using their class features (specifically, a wizard using some relevant spells), in a way that obviated any need for inventive solutions. The only reason one could draw any association at all is because OSR-like games often just give the player so little to work with in the first place. (And if spells somehow get a special dispensation despite [I]very much[/I] being a class feature....let's just say I have some choice words for that particular form of magic favoritism.) More importantly, why does it matter whether the inventiveness involves something on one specific part of the character sheet (ability scores and features, whether they be racial, class, feat, etc.), if you're totally okay with it using things from [I]other[/I] parts of the character sheet (items, tools, hirelings/henchmen)? I don't understand why there's such a patronizing attitude toward ever using the features the game gave you. Inventiveness is inventiveness. We should encourage it anytime. [/QUOTE]

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