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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9548262" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I have mostly checked out of this thread (there's only so much of a conga line I can endure, after all) but this points to, I think, the critical difference for you vs where D&D has gone and, in general, where players want it to go.You don't want heroic characters--using the term in the ancient Greek sense, that is, people who are fundamentally larger-than-life, people around whom hero-cults form to literally raise them to godhood, apotheosis, people who are great enough to change the world. You want characters who are, at a fundamental level, identical to ordinary Joe Shmoe. Oh, they may have learned a cool technique, or figured out some smart tactics, or studied some magic or whatever. But they're fundamentally Just Some Guy who happens to have learned One Weird Trick (Guards Hate Them!)That's just...not what most people are looking for from D&D. I had longer post, but honestly, it was self-indulgent. Most folks who hear what D&D is do want heroic characters. What, exactly, "heroic" cashes out to be--that's a pretty major point of contention. I'm pretty sure the things I would consider to be "heroic" would be utterly unacceptable to [USER=6747251]@Micah Sweet[/USER] for example. But we aren't disagreeing about whether they are heroic or not. It's a matter of degree, not kind; but your expectation is a difference of kind. That's always going to be a sticking point.</blockquote>

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