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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 9549202" data-attributes="member: 29398">And the few who do survive become the heroes.A horde of Orcs could attack a small town that has nobody with any class levels in it.  The townsfolk fight back as best they can; and while 80% of them might die (or flee) before the Orcs are driven off there will still be the few who - usually for reasons of sheer luck - stand into the thick of the fighting and come out on their feet at the end.  There's yer heroes, at least for today - the 15 surviving mundane townsfolk who with their pitchforks and meat cleavers drove off the Orc invaders and who get to tell that tale for the rest of their lives.And that's not to say that the 184 who died were any less heroic; one could argue they were more so rather than less in that they gave their lives for the town.The difference between us, I think, is that you'd somewhat insist on playing one of those surviving 15 where I'm happy with playing any of the starting 199 and if I happen to be one of the 15 still standing at the end then good for me - I get free beer for life in the local tavern. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />This is where the different types of death, recently referenced upthread, come into play.  Most of us aren't necessarily always talking about random permanent irrevocable (RPI) deaths only, we're talking about character deaths in general as a fail state whether temporary (the player sits out for a while before the PC is revived) or permanent (the player rolls up a new one).At low level deaths are almost always permanent and irrevocable even if not random, which represents the overlap in the discussion, because the PCs just don't have the resources and-or ability to access revival effects.  At higher levels deaths are rarely permanent or irrevocable due to the greater ease of access to revival effects but (depending on edition or system) can come across as much more random e.g. through save-or-die effects.Which means, then, that our death-as-failure rate is mighty low indeed in the long run, way lower than 1%, even though characters die in our games relatively regularly (though more so at low levels than high).And, if revival effects are in play death isn't necessarily the end of a character's career.  In 1e death carries a lingering penalty (loss of a Con point) which I very much like, but even there I've seen (and DMed, and played) characters who have died numeroues times and yet who are still active today.</blockquote>

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