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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9552959" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Then why, as part of dimissing the strength of narrative losses, do you mention that they are "hard"? If it isn't to dismiss them and point to death being easier for the DM to do without needing to put any work in, why start talking about how hard it is to make narrative consequences for the group?Yes, you need to have the fiction in place to allow for it. So, no, you don't have the murder zombies that eat everyone drag off the TPK'd party. You have something else happen. What? Well, that depends on the fiction, doesn't it?Hmm, someone dying a violent death in a graveyard full of necromantic energies... hey Paul, what do you think about your fighter coming back as a Reborn, some sort of revenant like creature caught between life and death?Am I breaking the fiction? No, not at all. In fact, people coming back as undead is a bedrock part of the fiction of a DnD world where UNDEAD are what you are fighting. "Well, why is Paul's character not a mindless zombie devouring the flesh of the living?". Hmm, that is interesting. Why might they not be that? That might be something worth exploring.And if you were Paul, and you were like, "No, that is stupid, I'd rather you kill my character and I make a new one."... GREAT! Then we kill your character and make you a new one. But the point is making it an option. Maybe when your character is dying, a Devil offers you a deal to survive, and now you have that problem to deal with. The point isn't to break the fiction into useless chunks of nonsense, all to preserve the almighty character, the point is that DnD is such a fantastical game full of hundreds of ways to preserve a character's life that there is no reason NOT to give the option.Edit: Looking over EzekielRaiden's post, you seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on what the "Default state" of the game assumes. That is not my point at all. I don't care that the default state of the game assumes character death. My responses are crafted towards the people who keep claiming that by largely removing death without the player consenting to that death, I have ruined the game, made it hollow, or otherwise removed all point in playing the game. If your response is largely "but the game cannot assume a DM will do this" that isn't a counter -argument.</blockquote>

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