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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 9559490" data-attributes="member: 29398">Then that needs to change, I'd say.  Danger means danger. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />If a typical 1st or 2nd-level character has 10 h.p. and the average damage of a 30-foot fall is 10.5 then some will survive the trap outright, while most will be (in my system) checking for consciousness and bleeding out or (in 5e) making death saves.  18 damage - the max for a 30-foot fall - isn't going to kill anyone outright in my system where death is at -10; and nobody dies outright in 5e from something like this due to the death-save mechanic.But even then, if I've heard the caves are dangerous and I still go there, then die to a pit trap because nobody could get down to me in time, I still have no right to complain. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />And it also immediately tells me if I've done a bad job of describing something if they look at me blankly and-or ask "What's wrong with [whatever we're doing]?".One of the biggest arguments I ever had with a DM was one of these.  The situation: a few Very Bad Guys riding in a low-height flying vehicle (similar to the landspeeder that Luke, Ben, etc. ride into Mos Eisley on); as with the landspeeder, their heads and shoulders are sticking out above the sides of the vehicle.The Bad Guys have the vehicle fly a few feet into the air, flip over, and power-dive toward the ground.  Both as player and character I think they have to stop before they hit the ground or the riders will all be squashed by the vehicle, and it's my turn to act, so I have my character (the actual Lanefan) baseball-slide into their flight path so as to attack their exposed - and now upside-down - heads when they stop.DM: "Are you sure?"Me: "Yes I'm sure.  They have to stop or they're all gonna get killed."DM: "Are you sure?" (variants on this exchange repeated several times, with no added description coming from the DM other than to clarify what he'd already said)End result: I slide in, the vehicle doesn't stop, I get squashed and die, and the occupants do not: there was a dome of force protecting the vehicle's occupants that we had no knowledge or warning about.Yeah, that argument went on for a while. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />A lot of that complaining, though, comes across to me as holding a heavy undertone of unwillingness to let themselves go into react mode when the players go off-script.  The DM is set on running a heroic adventure (or an adventure of any kind, for that matter) rather than just allowing the players - in true sandbox mode - to have their characters bash around in the neutrally-presented setting however they like.And it's not just murderhoboism.  I see these complaints more often whenever CvC comes upI am, but I also somewhat assume the DM is having at least some fun as long as people are willing to play in and engage with the game and-or setting she's running.Yeah, it's this sort of thinking that's made hockey a lot more boring over the last few decades.</blockquote>

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