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How on earth is this balanced?! Twilight cleric, more in-play evidence
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<blockquote data-quote="Levistus's_Leviathan" data-source="post: 8332379" data-attributes="member: 7023887"><p>Don't allow a Twilight Cleric. </p><p></p><p>Okay, I'll be more helpful than that. Change Twilight Clerics in one of the ways recommended in this thread if your party has one (probably by making the THP be once, not every round, and maybe even limit it to 1d6+WIS mod/PB). A major part of the theme of Rime of the Frostmaiden is the feeling of solitude in Icewind Dale, that there is no one out there that can help them, and that they are alone and exposed in the wilds. If the party can take on a Frost Giant with a Lance that is riding a Mammoth at level 3 (like mine did, thanks in no small part to the Twilight Cleric's THP feature, Moonbeam, and spamming Sanctuary), that part of the adventure either won't be present or they'll feel less nervous to tackle some of the later challenges in the adventure (how is a CR 11 god scary at level 9-10 if they took on something just 3 CRs below it when they were level 3!?!?). If the party doesn't feel exposed, that negates a major part of the adventure (for me, at least). </p><p></p><p>My advice to you if you were to run it with a Twilight Cleric is to either not allow the Twilight Cleric, or don't allow it as written. </p><p></p><p>No problem, and thanks for being open to change your mind in this discussion. That's a pretty rare thing to find on internet forums. </p><p></p><p>Yeah. IMO, it's one of the best (if not the best) 2nd level ability in the game. Most other features are balanced in the ways I described above to avoid this kind of unbalance, but for some reason this subclass didn't get any of that. </p><p></p><p>Okay, maybe it would be better if I said "Short Rests are easier to take than Long Rests, and Long Rests are when the majority of 5e's character class/subclass expendable features recharge". It is campaign dependent, of course, but Short Rests are typically easier to take than long rests and are easier to take between combats, so that makes this feature even more ridiculously powerful than it was before. </p><p></p><p>I typically only have one or two combats each short rest, and that's only ever on a really combat-heavy day. It's almost always "combat done, you take a short rest, right?" in my games. </p><p></p><p>That applies to literally every combat-applicable feature in the game, so I don't find it a valid argument against Twilight Sanctuary (and the subclass as a whole) being OP. Sure, you're right, but only right in general, not right in the specific case of the Twilight Domain. Furthermore, that's quite a large change that the DM has to make to their whole game's playstyle because of a subclass feature. If having to change a major aspect of your game to balance out Twilight Domain Clerics isn't proof that it's gamebreaking, I don't know what is. </p><p></p><p><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44d.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt="(y)" title="Thumbs up (y)" data-smilie="22"data-shortname="(y)" /></p><p>I would be happy to hear your experiences with them and if/how they differ from my table's in the future. It is definitely campaign-dependent in its usefulness (as is literally every feature/mechanic in the game), but I still hold my opinion on it being OP.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Levistus's_Leviathan, post: 8332379, member: 7023887"] Don't allow a Twilight Cleric. Okay, I'll be more helpful than that. Change Twilight Clerics in one of the ways recommended in this thread if your party has one (probably by making the THP be once, not every round, and maybe even limit it to 1d6+WIS mod/PB). A major part of the theme of Rime of the Frostmaiden is the feeling of solitude in Icewind Dale, that there is no one out there that can help them, and that they are alone and exposed in the wilds. If the party can take on a Frost Giant with a Lance that is riding a Mammoth at level 3 (like mine did, thanks in no small part to the Twilight Cleric's THP feature, Moonbeam, and spamming Sanctuary), that part of the adventure either won't be present or they'll feel less nervous to tackle some of the later challenges in the adventure (how is a CR 11 god scary at level 9-10 if they took on something just 3 CRs below it when they were level 3!?!?). If the party doesn't feel exposed, that negates a major part of the adventure (for me, at least). My advice to you if you were to run it with a Twilight Cleric is to either not allow the Twilight Cleric, or don't allow it as written. No problem, and thanks for being open to change your mind in this discussion. That's a pretty rare thing to find on internet forums. Yeah. IMO, it's one of the best (if not the best) 2nd level ability in the game. Most other features are balanced in the ways I described above to avoid this kind of unbalance, but for some reason this subclass didn't get any of that. Okay, maybe it would be better if I said "Short Rests are easier to take than Long Rests, and Long Rests are when the majority of 5e's character class/subclass expendable features recharge". It is campaign dependent, of course, but Short Rests are typically easier to take than long rests and are easier to take between combats, so that makes this feature even more ridiculously powerful than it was before. I typically only have one or two combats each short rest, and that's only ever on a really combat-heavy day. It's almost always "combat done, you take a short rest, right?" in my games. That applies to literally every combat-applicable feature in the game, so I don't find it a valid argument against Twilight Sanctuary (and the subclass as a whole) being OP. Sure, you're right, but only right in general, not right in the specific case of the Twilight Domain. Furthermore, that's quite a large change that the DM has to make to their whole game's playstyle because of a subclass feature. If having to change a major aspect of your game to balance out Twilight Domain Clerics isn't proof that it's gamebreaking, I don't know what is. (y) I would be happy to hear your experiences with them and if/how they differ from my table's in the future. It is definitely campaign-dependent in its usefulness (as is literally every feature/mechanic in the game), but I still hold my opinion on it being OP. [/QUOTE]
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How on earth is this balanced?! Twilight cleric, more in-play evidence
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