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How on earth is this balanced?! Twilight cleric, more in-play evidence
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8589035" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>For clarification you said - <em>"It's far more effective than any concentration spell I've <u><strong>ever seen</strong></u> a cleric cast"</em> ...</p><p></p><p>Few monsters are persons, but certainly you have "seen" a cleric fight humanoids and cast Hold Person at least once right? I mean you have seen it?</p><p></p><p>All of the spells I listed are going to generally be more effective in combat than TS when you use them. In some cases they are situational, but you were suggesting this is more powerful than any concentration spell a cleric can cast in any situation. The ones I listed are just the ones that are objectively better, I would put others like Faerie Fire and Moonbeam right in there pretty close with TS in terms of effectiveness.</p><p></p><p>We were not really discussing the role of clerics vs the role of wizards and I would argue that in 5e that is not a discussion worth having because you can build any spell casting class to fill any role in the game. We are comparing how powerful concentration spells are to twilight sanctuary, in that respect something like sunbeam that will deal 27 points of damage (or 13 with a save) and blind every enemy in a 60x5 foot line every single turn, for turn after turn, is going to almost always be more effective than giving 14 or so temp hps to the people who got hit AND managed to stay within 30 feet of you.</p><p></p><p>Finally if you really want to restrict this discussion to "keeping people alive" - Aura of Vitality will still always be better than Twilight Sanctuary at "keeping people alive". ALWAYS.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8589035, member: 7030563"] For clarification you said - [I]"It's far more effective than any concentration spell I've [U][B]ever seen[/B][/U] a cleric cast"[/I] ... Few monsters are persons, but certainly you have "seen" a cleric fight humanoids and cast Hold Person at least once right? I mean you have seen it? All of the spells I listed are going to generally be more effective in combat than TS when you use them. In some cases they are situational, but you were suggesting this is more powerful than any concentration spell a cleric can cast in any situation. The ones I listed are just the ones that are objectively better, I would put others like Faerie Fire and Moonbeam right in there pretty close with TS in terms of effectiveness. We were not really discussing the role of clerics vs the role of wizards and I would argue that in 5e that is not a discussion worth having because you can build any spell casting class to fill any role in the game. We are comparing how powerful concentration spells are to twilight sanctuary, in that respect something like sunbeam that will deal 27 points of damage (or 13 with a save) and blind every enemy in a 60x5 foot line every single turn, for turn after turn, is going to almost always be more effective than giving 14 or so temp hps to the people who got hit AND managed to stay within 30 feet of you. Finally if you really want to restrict this discussion to "keeping people alive" - Aura of Vitality will still always be better than Twilight Sanctuary at "keeping people alive". ALWAYS. [/QUOTE]
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How on earth is this balanced?! Twilight cleric, more in-play evidence
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