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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9556817" data-attributes="member: 6790260">It seems to me that the much more effective way to address this is to do what 4e did: attacker always rolls, &quot;saving throw bonuses&quot; become set as defense numbers, &quot;Saving Throws&quot; become a duration mechanic.This has several add-on benefits, such as streamlining the system (there's no need to remember whether an action induces a save or requires an attack roll) and opening up better, easier design space (because now you can have a buff spell that adds +1 attack or +1 defense, and it works equally well for every character, regardless of how they go about their attacks).5e already uses saving throws as both a &quot;does it happen&quot; mechanic and as a &quot;how long does it last&quot; mechanic, so in that sense, we can retain the generic &quot;Saving Throw&quot; as 4e did and very little would change. This also unifies Death Saves with other kinds of saves: they are all a mechanic which says whether a negative status lingers or not, and also opens design space in the shape of the &quot;Disease Track&quot; which can do some cool stuff and also permits slowly-worsening conditions. (E.g. &quot;Petrify&quot; generally isn't instant: fail the first save and you're Slowed, fail the second and you're Dazed, and only with the third failure are you Petrified.) This allows the PCs to do something about a Very Very Bad Condition rather than simply suffering the &quot;rocket tag&quot; effect as you describe.Turning &quot;does it happen&quot; into Attack rolls against non-AC defenses, and keeping saves (including Death Saves) as a &quot;how long does it last&quot;/&quot;does it get better/worse&quot; mechanic, would address all of your concerns and make it a lot easier to do other design space. It wouldn't be as traditional as the &quot;saving throws&quot; we're used to....but other than 1e-&gt;2e, every edition has done saving throws differently, so &quot;tradition&quot; is a bit of a weak argument here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9556817, member: 6790260"] It seems to me that the much more effective way to address this is to do what 4e did: attacker always rolls, "saving throw bonuses" become set as defense numbers, "Saving Throws" become a duration mechanic. This has several add-on benefits, such as streamlining the system (there's no need to remember whether an action induces a save or requires an attack roll) and opening up better, easier design space (because now you can have a buff spell that adds +1 attack or +1 defense, and it works equally well for every character, regardless of how they go about their attacks). 5e already uses saving throws as both a "does it happen" mechanic [I]and[/I] as a "how long does it last" mechanic, so in that sense, we can retain the generic "Saving Throw" as 4e did and very little would change. This also unifies Death Saves with other kinds of saves: they are all a mechanic which says [I]whether[/I] a negative status lingers or not, and also opens design space in the shape of the "Disease Track" which can do some cool stuff and also permits slowly-worsening conditions. (E.g. "Petrify" generally isn't instant: fail the first save and you're Slowed, fail the second and you're Dazed, and only with the third failure are you Petrified.) This allows the PCs to [I]do[/I] something about a Very Very Bad Condition rather than simply suffering the "rocket tag" effect as you describe. Turning "does it happen" into Attack rolls against non-AC defenses, and keeping saves (including Death Saves) as a "how long does it last"/"does it get better/worse" mechanic, would address all of your concerns and make it a lot easier to do other design space. It wouldn't be as traditional as the "saving throws" we're used to....but other than 1e->2e, [I]every[/I] edition has done saving throws differently, so "tradition" is a bit of a weak argument here. [/QUOTE]

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