Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How should a Summoner/Pet Class be implemented in 1DnD?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="kigmatzomat" data-source="post: 9015392" data-attributes="member: 9254"><p>As someone who has been a fan of summoning in various systems, in 5e I play a bard with Find Familiar, Summon Abherration, Find Greater Steed and Animate Object. I have one tiny permanent-ish ally, one large permanent-ish ally and a selection of temporary/concentration summons ranging from 10x tiny to 1x Huge creature. That uses the Guide to Everything books though and thr bardic secrets.</p><p></p><p>Lets just focus on the 1dd arcane list to see what a sorcerer/wizard, the base comparator, will have. Keep in mind the features of the base 1dd class.anything you propose is going to be compared to these spells. </p><p></p><p>1 - familiar (1st)- scales based on spell slot used but with no duration all wizards should be expected to have a max-level familiar 99%of the time. It is of average PC intelligence and can now attack, using the caster's Reaction.</p><p></p><p>AC 10+ Spell level (SL) (+2 if land based)</p><p>HP 2+ 2x SL (+1 escape/LR )</p><p>Attack: as caster spell attack</p><p>Damage 1+SL radiant/psychic/ necrotic</p><p></p><p>5 Animate Dead (3rd) not a Summon per se but it fits that "go fight for me" shtick. Does have the "evil" problem. They are CR 1/4 melees, don't use concentration, are usable up to 24hrs, and only need a bonus action to command. With multiple castings (and planning) you could get up to 4 of them at 5th level, though you are always down a 3rd level slot.</p><p>At higher levels and multiple spell slots you could keep a small army of them. Or just set em loose on your foes as automatic murder machines.</p><p></p><p>7 Conjure minor elemental (4th) These are mostly evil and fire based, which may be a problem thematically. It ranges from 8x cr1/4 mephits to 1x cr2 gargoyle. With higher level slots it doubles (6th = 16x cr1/4 - 2x cr2, 8th= 32x cr1/4 - 4x cr2). </p><p>Mephits have some minor specials and spells with low save DCs but when you have 8x of them, the odds change. Sleep, blindness, restrained all let you play RNG lotto.</p><p>Compare the effectiveness of many 8th level spells applied to an army vs sending 32 mephits to cast 32x Sleep spells, followed by 32x blinding dust cones then slaughter all the unconscious ones and blinded soldiers.</p><p></p><p>9 Animate Object (5th). Can have 10x tiny constructs up to 1x Huge construct. They are not great outside combat, are slow (speed 20) but are either mobile cover/hp, act as disposable flankers for melees, can surround one target and puree it, or provide weird benefits like doors that open themselves/fight people who want to open them. (I once animated a portcullis. Made castle entry easy and kept the guards busy)</p><p></p><p>9 Conjure Elemental (5th) summons a single Cr5 elemental. These are generally large, have more HP than the summoner, have many resistances and can dish out a lot of damage.</p><p>They can also run amok, so there's that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>11 create undead (5th) -again, hits the "do my bidding" role. Create an (evil) CR 1 melee that has paralysis, no concentration, usable for 24 hours, only needs a bonus action to issue orders. Can have up to three CR1 either planning & time. Using higher level slots you can have more CR1or go up to two CR2 mummies. </p><p>I dont think this is worth it for direct control but as far as vicious permanent traps or just dropping them into an enemy's camp, they are great.</p><p></p><p>13 simulacrum (7th) not a Summon but again, close enough. It is permanent-ish (can only have one at a time), doesn't require concentration, and can recreate, well, any humanoid. Did you once sweep the floor after Conan got a haircut? Well, you can make a half-hp version of Conan but with all his attacks, class features, etc. Same goes for Mordenkainen. Spells don't recover but so freaking what! Make a dupe of yourself and essentially double your spell casting for a fight. Or have spare cleric. A disposable thief!</p><p>They aren't worth healing in most cases but that's ok. The 1,000gp cost is negligible for the tesults.</p><p></p><p>17 Gate & Wish - both are very hazy in rules terms but can result in suddenly bamfing in some high level outsider. Gating in a high CR celestial while fighting demons/undead is probably a safe bet, though you may get the "lose my number or face my wrath" speech.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kigmatzomat, post: 9015392, member: 9254"] As someone who has been a fan of summoning in various systems, in 5e I play a bard with Find Familiar, Summon Abherration, Find Greater Steed and Animate Object. I have one tiny permanent-ish ally, one large permanent-ish ally and a selection of temporary/concentration summons ranging from 10x tiny to 1x Huge creature. That uses the Guide to Everything books though and thr bardic secrets. Lets just focus on the 1dd arcane list to see what a sorcerer/wizard, the base comparator, will have. Keep in mind the features of the base 1dd class.anything you propose is going to be compared to these spells. 1 - familiar (1st)- scales based on spell slot used but with no duration all wizards should be expected to have a max-level familiar 99%of the time. It is of average PC intelligence and can now attack, using the caster's Reaction. AC 10+ Spell level (SL) (+2 if land based) HP 2+ 2x SL (+1 escape/LR ) Attack: as caster spell attack Damage 1+SL radiant/psychic/ necrotic 5 Animate Dead (3rd) not a Summon per se but it fits that "go fight for me" shtick. Does have the "evil" problem. They are CR 1/4 melees, don't use concentration, are usable up to 24hrs, and only need a bonus action to command. With multiple castings (and planning) you could get up to 4 of them at 5th level, though you are always down a 3rd level slot. At higher levels and multiple spell slots you could keep a small army of them. Or just set em loose on your foes as automatic murder machines. 7 Conjure minor elemental (4th) These are mostly evil and fire based, which may be a problem thematically. It ranges from 8x cr1/4 mephits to 1x cr2 gargoyle. With higher level slots it doubles (6th = 16x cr1/4 - 2x cr2, 8th= 32x cr1/4 - 4x cr2). Mephits have some minor specials and spells with low save DCs but when you have 8x of them, the odds change. Sleep, blindness, restrained all let you play RNG lotto. Compare the effectiveness of many 8th level spells applied to an army vs sending 32 mephits to cast 32x Sleep spells, followed by 32x blinding dust cones then slaughter all the unconscious ones and blinded soldiers. 9 Animate Object (5th). Can have 10x tiny constructs up to 1x Huge construct. They are not great outside combat, are slow (speed 20) but are either mobile cover/hp, act as disposable flankers for melees, can surround one target and puree it, or provide weird benefits like doors that open themselves/fight people who want to open them. (I once animated a portcullis. Made castle entry easy and kept the guards busy) 9 Conjure Elemental (5th) summons a single Cr5 elemental. These are generally large, have more HP than the summoner, have many resistances and can dish out a lot of damage. They can also run amok, so there's that. 11 create undead (5th) -again, hits the "do my bidding" role. Create an (evil) CR 1 melee that has paralysis, no concentration, usable for 24 hours, only needs a bonus action to issue orders. Can have up to three CR1 either planning & time. Using higher level slots you can have more CR1or go up to two CR2 mummies. I dont think this is worth it for direct control but as far as vicious permanent traps or just dropping them into an enemy's camp, they are great. 13 simulacrum (7th) not a Summon but again, close enough. It is permanent-ish (can only have one at a time), doesn't require concentration, and can recreate, well, any humanoid. Did you once sweep the floor after Conan got a haircut? Well, you can make a half-hp version of Conan but with all his attacks, class features, etc. Same goes for Mordenkainen. Spells don't recover but so freaking what! Make a dupe of yourself and essentially double your spell casting for a fight. Or have spare cleric. A disposable thief! They aren't worth healing in most cases but that's ok. The 1,000gp cost is negligible for the tesults. 17 Gate & Wish - both are very hazy in rules terms but can result in suddenly bamfing in some high level outsider. Gating in a high CR celestial while fighting demons/undead is probably a safe bet, though you may get the "lose my number or face my wrath" speech. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How should a Summoner/Pet Class be implemented in 1DnD?
Top