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How should be the future Oriental Adventures.
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8029215" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I am a university professor but not of English. I am in a law school. Among other things I teach theoretical sociology. In that unit, among other works I teach Hobson's <em>The Eastern Origins of Western Civilisation </em>and Tamanaha's <em>General Jurisprudence of Law and Society</em>.</p><p></p><p>I am not particularly concerned if WotC stops selling OA or does not. That's basically a commercial decision. I don't think OA is a work of race hatred. Nor do I think it is a valuable cultural artefact that needs to be available to everyone for posterity. In that way I don't think the comparison to important American novels really works.</p><p></p><p>What would be a pity, if it was to stop being published, is that it is the only AD&D rulebook to present a coherent conception of PCs as connected to place and people, and having recognisable human motivations, rather than as rootless wanderers looking around for dungeons and/or quest-givers.</p><p></p><p>What you describe in that second-last sentence is a reasonable approximation of trad D&D, or the Forgotten Realms.</p><p></p><p>There are aspects of OA that are clearly derived from real-world history. "Shou Lung", which is OA's paradigm of a strong imperial China, has a centralised bureaucratic government strong enough to support paper money. It's two versions of Japan clearly correspond to periods in Japanese history around 1200-1400 and then 1600-1700 CE.</p><p></p><p>Then there is the more subtle consequence of the use of non-English and even non-European names. Calling a warrior a <em>knight</em> in a North American FRPG is not seen as carrying any particularly heavy cultural baggage, beyond referring to a heavily armed and armoured mounted soldier who is probably in service to some noble or cause. Calling a warrior a <em>samurai</em> in a North American FRPG is taken to be a call out to a distinct element of Japanese history and culture (I hesitate to call it a <em>social role</em> given that samurai occupied different social roles at different times and places in Japan). Similar points can be made about <em>lord</em> compared to <em>daimyo</em>, or <em>thief</em> or <em>racketeer</em> compared to <em>yakuza</em>, and even <em>longsword</em> compared to <em>katana</em>.</p><p></p><p>It is not terribly controversial, in a North American FRPG, to present a setting which runs together, in a more-or-less undifferentiated fashion, traditions and political practices of high mediaeval England, Italian city states, and a Syrian sect (the assassins, led by their "Old Man of the Mountain"). As this and the other thread show, it is more controversial to present a setting that runs together (say) Chinese ideas of unarmed warrior ascetics and Japanese ideas of monastic warriors.</p><p></p><p>I don't think that <em>respectful</em> is a helpful notion here. The issue is one of curation and cultural appropriation.</p><p></p><p>Some of the most profound impacts of WWII and the Cold War occurred outside of Europe. Korea, Vietnam, China, Malaysia and Indonesia are all obvious examples. East Africa and Southern Africa provide further examples. Does Eberron deal with them? Or it is a white-washed Cold War?</p><p></p><p>I ask because when it comes to racist presentations of theme and history omission and disregard can be important considerations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8029215, member: 42582"] I am a university professor but not of English. I am in a law school. Among other things I teach theoretical sociology. In that unit, among other works I teach Hobson's [I]The Eastern Origins of Western Civilisation [/I]and Tamanaha's [I]General Jurisprudence of Law and Society[/I]. I am not particularly concerned if WotC stops selling OA or does not. That's basically a commercial decision. I don't think OA is a work of race hatred. Nor do I think it is a valuable cultural artefact that needs to be available to everyone for posterity. In that way I don't think the comparison to important American novels really works. What would be a pity, if it was to stop being published, is that it is the only AD&D rulebook to present a coherent conception of PCs as connected to place and people, and having recognisable human motivations, rather than as rootless wanderers looking around for dungeons and/or quest-givers. What you describe in that second-last sentence is a reasonable approximation of trad D&D, or the Forgotten Realms. There are aspects of OA that are clearly derived from real-world history. "Shou Lung", which is OA's paradigm of a strong imperial China, has a centralised bureaucratic government strong enough to support paper money. It's two versions of Japan clearly correspond to periods in Japanese history around 1200-1400 and then 1600-1700 CE. Then there is the more subtle consequence of the use of non-English and even non-European names. Calling a warrior a [I]knight[/I] in a North American FRPG is not seen as carrying any particularly heavy cultural baggage, beyond referring to a heavily armed and armoured mounted soldier who is probably in service to some noble or cause. Calling a warrior a [I]samurai[/I] in a North American FRPG is taken to be a call out to a distinct element of Japanese history and culture (I hesitate to call it a [I]social role[/I] given that samurai occupied different social roles at different times and places in Japan). Similar points can be made about [I]lord[/I] compared to [I]daimyo[/I], or [I]thief[/I] or [I]racketeer[/I] compared to [I]yakuza[/I], and even [I]longsword[/I] compared to [I]katana[/I]. It is not terribly controversial, in a North American FRPG, to present a setting which runs together, in a more-or-less undifferentiated fashion, traditions and political practices of high mediaeval England, Italian city states, and a Syrian sect (the assassins, led by their "Old Man of the Mountain"). As this and the other thread show, it is more controversial to present a setting that runs together (say) Chinese ideas of unarmed warrior ascetics and Japanese ideas of monastic warriors. I don't think that [I]respectful[/I] is a helpful notion here. The issue is one of curation and cultural appropriation. Some of the most profound impacts of WWII and the Cold War occurred outside of Europe. Korea, Vietnam, China, Malaysia and Indonesia are all obvious examples. East Africa and Southern Africa provide further examples. Does Eberron deal with them? Or it is a white-washed Cold War? I ask because when it comes to racist presentations of theme and history omission and disregard can be important considerations. [/QUOTE]
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