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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zelda Themelin" data-source="post: 5620333" data-attributes="member: 167">As far as D&D 3ed+ rules or some 2nd edition stuff goes I really like them. They give such cool ideas, and you feel you can use so much things, with all feats, and monsters and classes and everything else. Most systems don't have so much content. Or if they do, they tend to have less *fantastic* content (like powerful magic). I don't think any system is cooler just for system. Sure there are many options, but they come with theme of their own. If you want play universe with epic magic, hordes of monsters, and greek-like gods plus Evil undead, devils and demons, there is really not many games out there that do it better.It is true, that once D&D gets around lv 13 it starts to break apart. Usually for DC progress and for AC first in our games and then falling to other stuff.  20 sided dice doesn't just do enough difference when scores get bigger. We actually ended up using d40 and then d100 and various other methods.  With actual D&D rules there are only two kinda epic battles, the grindy one, that might never end. And the horrible fast I win iniative, fail to save and die battles.And list of abilities tends to get way out of hand what comes to lenght. Then again, back to my old runequest days my list of magic (mostly spirit) items was equally long.Now when I think of it, back to Runequest we got use the system rules all though the Herowars, though some stats were surely "interesting".Magicwise runequest doesn't have as epic feel as D&D does though, and IMO warhammer battle/40000 does Chaos better.Everyone who actually does use D&D epic rules has to re-white gods, and demons etc for those rules. Which is again much extra work.It's often easier go skip the whole book. Though it has some good stuff in it too.It often happens that you don't know the game goes on so long, you have to suffer rule burdens of D&D. My personal experience is that we often play up to lv 24 before we bow out of rules as written.  Sure we have character sheet and might even bother updating it, usually with abilities you don't find in book and yeh, then it's kinda semi-D&D. Because it started and long played fine as D&D.Back to AD&D times I used Primal Order-system for godly stuff, worked back then, but still less fun than D&D 3x IMO.Really epic games are games of purer own imagination, than most systems offer. Because existing systems don't really offer it, and those that do, don't really do it well. Unlike D&D, which kinda tries to do everything, games like let's say Fiasko try to do spesific theme. And this is problematic if you don't want focus on that theme, or psychological window or whatsnot. Still, if you feel, D&D has become too broken and burdersome, and don't want to come up with system of your own, within possibilities you have skim through different systems, and look how they do resolutions of conflict. You can still use D&D universe for other stuff, I would. However if you are happy just adjusting and rule-0:ing D&D there is no need to look any futher no matter what some here say.  You aren't playing rpg to endose their idea of how it should be done.  Some here are trying to suggest other systems though, they feel that it might be reason behind your gaming problems.I don't think so, but it might be contributing fact why your DM is acting this way. If he in his mind wants to do it mostly by-the-book.  And if any here have read good old min-max forums of Wizards' know that actual rules are different from spirit of the rules. You can actually do lot of broken stuf quite within the rules. Some dm:s are by the book that way. Yes seen it in actual game, it was silly. Mainly because there was no real reason for that level of power and we were playing some regular dungeon adventure. Yeh "physics of real world were certainly getting in the way of D&D rules there.... like gravity".I think CuRoi is right.Changing character from dm to dm risks that something is "lost in translation". This is especially so powers that arent specified and written down in detail.People often have different ideas how things should work. Heck, my dm forgets how ability he gave to character worked month ago.</blockquote>

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