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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Zardoz" data-source="post: 5206129" data-attributes="member: 704">How quickly you see the signs depends at least in part on which side of the DM screen your sitting.Due to a combination of metagame and incomplete information, the players are usually not going to expect to run up against encounters that they cannot handle.  Dm's who do continually throw entirely unwinnable combats at players often end up with a decided shortage of players.  DM's who are known to let PC's die have more cautious players, but there is a difference between a hard fight and a deadly fight.  So the players usually enter a fight thinking they can handle it.So to use analogy, for the players anticipating a TPK is about as easy as figuring out if the hot wings are a bit too spicy to handle;  You wont know for sure until you take a bite.For the DM, it is a bit different.  If a fight is meant to push the line between hard and too hard, then it is easy to forsee the possibility of a TPK.  But a few things can catch the DM off guard. - Unfamiliar non-damage ability:  Dm's very quickly get a feel for how deadly a creature is based on its to hit and damage.  But an ability like Daze, Stun, or Immobilize can have a much bigger effect on a fight then the DM realized.  Especially if it works out that many of the monsters have that ability. - Overestimating player resources:  An encounter that might be no problem for a party with full healing surges may turn into a problem if the players are low on surges. - Overestimating player wisdom or luck:  Sometimes the players manage to do what Bullgrits players did and 'pull a train', stringing several encounters together.  In 4th edition, players can self heal and regain encounter powers between fights.  Deny them that, and it wont matter if they have 11 surges.  The leader can only use the inspiring word type power twice. - Hot or Cold Dice:  You can look at average numbers for attack and damage per round all you want.  Once in a while someone hits a hot or cold streak.  A solo with a brutal recharge ability that is suddenly able to use it every round for 6 or so rounds and cannot seem to miss with that attack is going to annihilate everyone.END COMMUNICATION</blockquote>

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