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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 5534535" data-attributes="member: 6669384">A point to consider in this debate:&nbsp; People (and creatures in general) are presumed to be doing a &quot;Take 10&quot; on their Spot any time their eyes are open.&nbsp; There's a -5 penalty to Spot for being &quot;distracted&quot;.If the door into the room is facing squarely at the Dretches, the DC for them seeing it move is pretty much a zero.If the door is on a &quot;side wall&quot; relative to them, then it becomes important to consider whether it opens into the room or out from it.&nbsp; If it swings out, and they're viewing it from an angle, then the doorframe itself can provide concealment.&nbsp; And, in the hands of the PC, it's an &quot;attended object&quot;, and he can apply his own Hide skill to move it slowly enough not to draw notice.&nbsp; Of course, he'll have to close it again once he's inside, or he won't be able to keep it's new open position hidden once it stops being an &quot;attended&quot; object.And, in the non-combat situation, I could see the argument that the Dretches nearest the door could provide concealment w/regards to the ones on the other side of the group.&nbsp; So it really comes down to positioning, which is why maps and minis are so important in D&amp;D 3.*.If the Dretches are in a huddle or circle, facing each other in conversation, or perhaps passing the time with a game of stone/parchment/dagger, then they're distracted and providing some cover for our intrepid adventurer.Of course, if he tries to move that chest we're back to the situation of hiding behind your own shield:&nbsp; They won't see you, but they're more than likely to notice the chest trying to sneak across the room.&nbsp; Chests have really lousy stealth skills.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 5534535, member: 6669384"] A point to consider in this debate: People (and creatures in general) are presumed to be doing a "Take 10" on their Spot any time their eyes are open. There's a -5 penalty to Spot for being "distracted". If the door into the room is facing squarely at the Dretches, the DC for them seeing it move is pretty much a zero. If the door is on a "side wall" relative to them, then it becomes important to consider whether it opens into the room or out from it. If it swings out, and they're viewing it from an angle, then the doorframe itself can provide concealment. And, in the hands of the PC, it's an "attended object", and he can apply his own Hide skill to move it slowly enough not to draw notice. Of course, he'll have to close it again once he's inside, or he won't be able to keep it's new open position hidden once it stops being an "attended" object. And, in the non-combat situation, I could see the argument that the Dretches nearest the door could provide concealment w/regards to the ones on the other side of the group. So it really comes down to positioning, which is why maps and minis are so important in D&D 3.*. If the Dretches are in a huddle or circle, facing each other in conversation, or perhaps passing the time with a game of stone/parchment/dagger, then they're distracted and providing some cover for our intrepid adventurer. Of course, if he tries to move that chest we're back to the situation of hiding behind your own shield: They won't see you, but they're more than likely to notice the chest trying to sneak across the room. Chests have really lousy stealth skills. [/QUOTE]

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