How to add more bugs.. (increasing a swarm)

[Three_Haligonians]

Hey all,

So I was reading over swarms in order to prepare for my next game when I noticed that swarms don't advance. Ever. As I looked into it, I found this at the beginning of the Swarm entry of the 3.5 Monster Manual:

While a single cloud of locusts might actually be hundreds of feet across, for game purposes a swam is defined as a single creature with a space of 10 feet - gigantic hordes of bats or locusts are actually composed of dozens of swarms in close proximity.

So everything seemed fine to me, until I read on:

A swarm has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single Armour Class. It makes saving throws as a single creature.

Now I am confused. Does this mean that if I have two swarms right next to each other that they are treated as two "creatures" right next to each other and that I have to keep track of their HP and actions seperatley? If this is the case then don't swarms become useless after a little while since there is no real way to increase their abilities? (the highest CR swarm in the MM is the Hellwasp swarm which comes in at CR 8).

On the other hand, if two or more swarms right next to each other become one swarm and thus one "creature," do I add their Hit Dice and HP together? It makes sense for hit points but consider the fact that the DC for a swarms Distraction ability is 10 +1/2 HD + Con Mod.
If I start adding these swarms together, I'll have the opposite problem; abilities that increase way too much.

What have I missed here?

Thanks,

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Infiniti2000]

You haven't missed anything, actually. You seem to know the rules pretty well. Are you looking for help in houseruling it differently? I wouldn't, quite honestly, because IMO swarms get to be only so tough, and the swarms themselves indicate that pretty much the max number of bugs are already present within the area of a single swarm. If you put two swarms together though, you could rule that when they are defeated (and disperse), they form a single swarm. Or, some rule like that, maybe 3-to-1 or even 4-to-1 if a 2-to-1 ratio is too much. Good luck!

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Yes, you've got it right J, swarms don't advance, and two swarms next to each other are still two swarms next to each other. They don't form any sort of "megaswarm" simply due to proximity.

If I wanted to simulate a gigantic swarm, I'd probably wind up not using individual minis (so the players couldn't see the distinction) and assigning player damage randomly to the various individual swarms. This would simulate one giant swarm, but the swarm would weaken as the smaller swarms were killed, rather than remaining at full strength until every last bug was quashed (as per an actual single creature swarm.)

 

[the Jester]

Yep, by the RAW swarms are separate creatures and don't advance.

If you're working with a massive swarm, though, I see no problem with having them in a massive contiguous series of swarms that work together in a mass. In fact, that's generally how I visualize an encounter with mulitple swarms, at least until the pcs have whittled them down to two or three.

Even at high levels, though, swarms are still usable. After all, they don't even need to roll to hit. And has anyone else entertained the notions of templated swarms?

Paragon half-fiend shadow creature wasp swarms...

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Great!

Thanks folks,

I knew once I worked out the ridiculous DC's for the abilities of a "megaswarm" that it had to be my first option, so my encounter will be a room full of swarms (no place to run that way..)

And as for high challenge swarms... I found the Bloodfiend Locust swarm in the Fiend Folio... which grants a negative level every time they "hit."

Wow...

J from Three Haligonians