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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7924490" data-attributes="member: 4937">Yes, I think it is.Where I'm drawing the line here is the idea that we can keep the same origin or heritage of any given species, and the same biology of any given species, and the same modes of behavior of any given species, and then just suggest that there is no rational basis for describing that species as &quot;Evil&quot; in the setting.I realize what some people are stumbling over is that they are moral relativists, so they don't believe good or evil or right or wrong have objective reality, so I have tried on occasion to move that discussion from the realm of fantasy to the realm of science fiction.&nbsp;&nbsp; In science fiction, we don't tend to treat good and evil as things having material reality, but we can still take an idea for a fantasy &quot;evil race&quot;, move that idea to a science fiction setting, and end up with a moral problem where - regardless of whether you want to label that race objectively &quot;evil&quot; - the moral dilemma involved in killing orcs still applies and still has the same discussion around it.&nbsp;&nbsp; If Krogan (from Mass Effect) are Space Orcs, they are still probably &quot;usually Chaotic Evil&quot;, and while there are example of noble Krogan there is still an important discussion in the game (and worth thinking about) with respect to how you deal with Krogan as a species.&nbsp;&nbsp; And we can follow this discussion further and further, by having science fiction species that aren't just equivalent to &quot;space orcs&quot;, but &quot;space vampires&quot;, &quot;space dragons&quot;, &quot;space demons&quot; and what have you, where no peaceable accommodation is possible.&nbsp;&nbsp; If a hegmonizing nanite swarm is sentient, it doesn't imply that gives it the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7924490, member: 4937"] Yes, I think it is. Where I'm drawing the line here is the idea that we can keep the same origin or heritage of any given species, and the same biology of any given species, and the same modes of behavior of any given species, and then just suggest that there is no rational basis for describing that species as "Evil" in the setting. I realize what some people are stumbling over is that they are moral relativists, so they don't believe good or evil or right or wrong have objective reality, so I have tried on occasion to move that discussion from the realm of fantasy to the realm of science fiction. In science fiction, we don't tend to treat good and evil as things having material reality, but we can still take an idea for a fantasy "evil race", move that idea to a science fiction setting, and end up with a moral problem where - regardless of whether you want to label that race objectively "evil" - the moral dilemma involved in killing orcs still applies and still has the same discussion around it. If Krogan (from Mass Effect) are Space Orcs, they are still probably "usually Chaotic Evil", and while there are example of noble Krogan there is still an important discussion in the game (and worth thinking about) with respect to how you deal with Krogan as a species. And we can follow this discussion further and further, by having science fiction species that aren't just equivalent to "space orcs", but "space vampires", "space dragons", "space demons" and what have you, where no peaceable accommodation is possible. If a hegmonizing nanite swarm is sentient, it doesn't imply that gives it the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. [/QUOTE]

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