Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How to address racism in a fantasy setting without it dragging down the game?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7927247" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>We have to remember that the writers of D&D aren't the ones that heaped tons of connotations and ideas onto the word "race" since the time they chose it. It's perfectly valid English to speak of "the human <em>race</em>" to distinguish it from other sorts of animals. The word only means "having a common heritage/parentage". (Not that there weren't plenty of ugly ideas associated with the word before hand, but let's not go there.)</p><p></p><p>So, the human race, the dwarf race, the elf race, the goblin race are all perfectly valid constructions, and the choice of race even has some reasonableness to it. The word "species" carries with it a lot of scientific and biological baggage that is not meant to be implied as pertaining to a fantasy setting. In a scientific setting, it makes no sense for Spock to be "half Human and half Vulcan". As a "space elf", it is entirely within the archetype for Spock to be half-human and half Vulcan.</p><p></p><p>Where you get in trouble is going from the idea that because you can interbreed Vulcans and humans, that there aren't profound biological differences between Vulcans and Humans which influence their emotional contexts, their culture, their lifestyles, their desires, and their behavior. You get into trouble when you assume, that if it looks human it probably is basically human, sans some minor irrelevant features like pointed ears that distinguish Vulcans from humans hardly more than one human is different than another. Thus you get the idea that a Vulcan raised by humans would basically be human, or a human raised by Vulcan would basically be Vulcan. Heck, even the initially unreflected on assumption that since Vulcans and Humans look alike they could interbreed, naturally, is part of this rather simplistic mindset. It's the same thing that puts mammary glands on Dragonborn, or gets you John Carter marrying an egg laying Martian Princess and having a child by her (though, to be fair, it's strongly hinted John Carter is not actually human).</p><p></p><p>Point is, it's not incorrect to say that a green blooded Vulcan is essentially biologically different than a Human, and you are right that it is a bit of a categorical error to see that as being the same problem as human racism (human racial categories having a very weak biological basis).</p><p></p><p>What I'm seeing is a cultural trend toward proclaiming that if two species have a clear biological difference, you are being racist.</p><p></p><p>And since we are on the topic, real biological differences can lead to real alignment propensities.</p><p></p><p>To lead off with a less explosive example, the dwarf alignment propensity to lawfulness and the elf alignment propensity to chaoticness are in my homebrew setting the very natural result of their respective biological differences. They are not merely learned and chosen behaviors but innate and natural impulses of both species that are overcome only with difficulty. While not every elf is chaotic, and not every dwarf is lawful, the vast majority of the two races act according to their biological imperatives. In the case of elves, a lawfully structured society isn't even really possible for them. If they collectively tried to do that, they'd probably just go extinct because it is so completely unsuited to their biology.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7927247, member: 4937"] We have to remember that the writers of D&D aren't the ones that heaped tons of connotations and ideas onto the word "race" since the time they chose it. It's perfectly valid English to speak of "the human [I]race[/I]" to distinguish it from other sorts of animals. The word only means "having a common heritage/parentage". (Not that there weren't plenty of ugly ideas associated with the word before hand, but let's not go there.) So, the human race, the dwarf race, the elf race, the goblin race are all perfectly valid constructions, and the choice of race even has some reasonableness to it. The word "species" carries with it a lot of scientific and biological baggage that is not meant to be implied as pertaining to a fantasy setting. In a scientific setting, it makes no sense for Spock to be "half Human and half Vulcan". As a "space elf", it is entirely within the archetype for Spock to be half-human and half Vulcan. Where you get in trouble is going from the idea that because you can interbreed Vulcans and humans, that there aren't profound biological differences between Vulcans and Humans which influence their emotional contexts, their culture, their lifestyles, their desires, and their behavior. You get into trouble when you assume, that if it looks human it probably is basically human, sans some minor irrelevant features like pointed ears that distinguish Vulcans from humans hardly more than one human is different than another. Thus you get the idea that a Vulcan raised by humans would basically be human, or a human raised by Vulcan would basically be Vulcan. Heck, even the initially unreflected on assumption that since Vulcans and Humans look alike they could interbreed, naturally, is part of this rather simplistic mindset. It's the same thing that puts mammary glands on Dragonborn, or gets you John Carter marrying an egg laying Martian Princess and having a child by her (though, to be fair, it's strongly hinted John Carter is not actually human). Point is, it's not incorrect to say that a green blooded Vulcan is essentially biologically different than a Human, and you are right that it is a bit of a categorical error to see that as being the same problem as human racism (human racial categories having a very weak biological basis). What I'm seeing is a cultural trend toward proclaiming that if two species have a clear biological difference, you are being racist. And since we are on the topic, real biological differences can lead to real alignment propensities. To lead off with a less explosive example, the dwarf alignment propensity to lawfulness and the elf alignment propensity to chaoticness are in my homebrew setting the very natural result of their respective biological differences. They are not merely learned and chosen behaviors but innate and natural impulses of both species that are overcome only with difficulty. While not every elf is chaotic, and not every dwarf is lawful, the vast majority of the two races act according to their biological imperatives. In the case of elves, a lawfully structured society isn't even really possible for them. If they collectively tried to do that, they'd probably just go extinct because it is so completely unsuited to their biology. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How to address racism in a fantasy setting without it dragging down the game?
Top