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<blockquote data-quote="Greg Benage" data-source="post: 6629250" data-attributes="member: 93631">This makes sense, but I don't see how it's a unique feature of disclosing the stakes to the players. In other words, as long as the DM knows the stakes, he can confirm that the action requires a roll without sharing the stakes with the players.It strikes me as very railroad-y, if you'll forgive me for using such a loaded term. That the player agrees to come aboard doesn't make it less so, for me. Surely there are many possible outcomes if Lack-Toes manages to swim to Rosemary before the shark reaches her. Put another way, Lack-Toes's declared action wasn't &quot;I try to scare the shark away.&quot; It was &quot;I try to swim to Rosemary before the shark reaches her.&quot;Likewise with the chase: Doesn't failure indicate that the yuan-ti catch up with the party? Why does it mean &quot;You're captured and taken before the Great Abomination?&quot;&nbsp; To me, it seems to create tension at the cost of uncertainty and suspense. &quot;I will either be captured or I'll escape,&quot; as opposed to &quot;The yuan-ti will either catch up to me or I'll escape.&quot; The latter resolves the actual action in the same way, but opens the door to new player decisions (fight, surrender, parley, or some combination of those as the encounter plays out) rather than closing it.The thing is, I absolutely agree with you that the player needs some sense of the stakes. Lack-Toes shouldn't be surprised to discover that he sinks and drowns when failing the swim check to reach Rosemary. The player should know more or less what success or failure of his actual action looks like. In some of your examples, this is what you do: &quot;If you fail, you'll be exhausted.&quot; Cool. But in other cases, you go well beyond this and fold &quot;what happens next&quot; into the stakes. That's a step too far for me.I suspect this is because you are using the checks not just to resolve actions but to very consciously construct story or narrative. Is that accurate?Regardless, this is great reading. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greg Benage, post: 6629250, member: 93631"] This makes sense, but I don't see how it's a unique feature of disclosing the stakes to the players. In other words, as long as the DM knows the stakes, he can confirm that the action requires a roll without sharing the stakes with the players. It strikes me as very railroad-y, if you'll forgive me for using such a loaded term. That the player agrees to come aboard doesn't make it less so, for me. Surely there are many possible outcomes if Lack-Toes manages to swim to Rosemary before the shark reaches her. Put another way, Lack-Toes's declared action wasn't "I try to scare the shark away." It was "I try to swim to Rosemary before the shark reaches her." Likewise with the chase: Doesn't failure indicate that the yuan-ti catch up with the party? Why does it mean "You're captured and taken before the Great Abomination?" To me, it seems to create tension at the cost of uncertainty and suspense. "I will either be captured or I'll escape," as opposed to "The yuan-ti will either catch up to me or I'll escape." The latter resolves the actual action in the same way, but opens the door to new player decisions (fight, surrender, parley, or some combination of those as the encounter plays out) rather than closing it. The thing is, I absolutely agree with you that the player needs some sense of the stakes. Lack-Toes shouldn't be surprised to discover that he sinks and drowns when failing the swim check to reach Rosemary. The player should know more or less what success or failure of his actual action looks like. In some of your examples, this is what you do: "If you fail, you'll be exhausted." Cool. But in other cases, you go well beyond this and fold "what happens next" into the stakes. That's a step too far for me. I [I]suspect[/I] this is because you are using the checks not just to resolve actions but to very consciously construct story or narrative. Is that accurate? Regardless, this is great reading. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. [/QUOTE]

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