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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6095577" data-attributes="member: 4937">I don't think that it is that simple.&nbsp; All rules systems have breakable components.&nbsp; Plugging up all the holes is difficult.&nbsp; According to the DM, this player is good at optimization.&nbsp; You won't be able to nerf everything he does.&nbsp; And eventually, if the player is a power gamer you are going to end up in table conflict responding to everything he does with focused nerfs.&nbsp;&nbsp; It's a player that presumably enjoys that aspect of the game.&nbsp;&nbsp; While a run away power gamer can be a problem, the best thing for the game is usually to find a way to integrate the character into the game without disrupting it.&nbsp;&nbsp; That's not actually that hard.&nbsp;&nbsp; Power gamers are good for the table.&nbsp; If you don't have at least one powergamer in the group, it can make things really hard on the DM.&nbsp;&nbsp; That's because a power gamer provides a safety valve when you accidently present too hard of a challenge.&nbsp; They can actually be a resource to help provide believability to your story, and they are a defense against even more disruptive problems to a game like continual PC death.&nbsp; As a DM you should embrace your power gamers, provided they are willing to accept the fundamental rule - &quot;You can't be good at everything&quot; - and willing to step up to challenge ICly.&nbsp; Power gamers aren't always disruptive players.So, yes, you need to identify unsolvable rules problems and alter them preferably before they come up - planar ally or gate would be a case in point.&nbsp;&nbsp; But mostly you just need to not play solely to the power gamers strengths.&nbsp; By the rule, &quot;You can't be good at everythign&quot;, there are always going to be types of challenges that a player doesn't shine against.&nbsp; Typically power gamers will min-max heavily, so you are almost certainly dealing with a character with low charisma or some other drawback.&nbsp;&nbsp; So throw some social challenges in the mix.&nbsp;&nbsp; Power gamers are usually types of people who solve problems by hitting them with a hammer until they go away.&nbsp;&nbsp; Throw problems at the party that can't be solved by brute force.&nbsp; Challenge the party in other ways than combat, and then accept that the power gamer will shine in combat.&nbsp;&nbsp; Make combat more challenging without necessarily making it more dangerous.&nbsp;&nbsp; I've been talking about ways to do that.Don't fight power gamers by cheating or trying to power game back.&nbsp; It won't make for a happy table.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6095577, member: 4937"] I don't think that it is that simple. All rules systems have breakable components. Plugging up all the holes is difficult. According to the DM, this player is good at optimization. You won't be able to nerf everything he does. And eventually, if the player is a power gamer you are going to end up in table conflict responding to everything he does with focused nerfs. It's a player that presumably enjoys that aspect of the game. While a run away power gamer can be a problem, the best thing for the game is usually to find a way to integrate the character into the game without disrupting it. That's not actually that hard. Power gamers are good for the table. If you don't have at least one powergamer in the group, it can make things really hard on the DM. That's because a power gamer provides a safety valve when you accidently present too hard of a challenge. They can actually be a resource to help provide believability to your story, and they are a defense against even more disruptive problems to a game like continual PC death. As a DM you should embrace your power gamers, provided they are willing to accept the fundamental rule - "You can't be good at everything" - and willing to step up to challenge ICly. Power gamers aren't always disruptive players. So, yes, you need to identify unsolvable rules problems and alter them preferably before they come up - planar ally or gate would be a case in point. But mostly you just need to not play solely to the power gamers strengths. By the rule, "You can't be good at everythign", there are always going to be types of challenges that a player doesn't shine against. Typically power gamers will min-max heavily, so you are almost certainly dealing with a character with low charisma or some other drawback. So throw some social challenges in the mix. Power gamers are usually types of people who solve problems by hitting them with a hammer until they go away. Throw problems at the party that can't be solved by brute force. Challenge the party in other ways than combat, and then accept that the power gamer will shine in combat. Make combat more challenging without necessarily making it more dangerous. I've been talking about ways to do that. Don't fight power gamers by cheating or trying to power game back. It won't make for a happy table. [/QUOTE]

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