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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pauln6" data-source="post: 8863113" data-attributes="member: 6777422">I think you are looking at things in isolation.  Fighters were popular in 1e and 2e, quite unpopular in 3e, and very different as defenders in 4e. Regardless of monster math, in 1e to 3e, the cleric or druid had to spend most of their resources topping up hit points.  Healing 1hp per day was only relevant if you had no cleric, otherwise they just burned all their spellls to heal everyone and re-revised them the next day. The newer systems are working to make all the classes fun to play more of the time.We use the lowest tier of natural healing in 5e, so my experience may differ to some, albeit I do struggle to dent the hp of the barbarian/fighter/ranger in our group.  I don't really understand what it is that you are trying to achieve let alone how you are trying to achieve it.  If you are suggesting that monster AC should be spread out up to AC25, then we agree.  If you are suggesting that PC damage should be lowered or that multiple attacks should have penalties to hit, then we don't agree.  Cantrips and sneak attacks do lot of damage in one hit.  Nerfing multiple attacks would only impact on the characters who are not major problems.  Paladins need a slight nerf to bring their damage spikes down and rangers need a slight nerf to bring their damage spikes up.  Fighters seem to be working just fine IMO.With th example earlier of hobgoblins who are too hard to hit (presumably using chain mail and shields), I would say that PCs need to think more outside the box when fighting them.  Work out ways to gain advantage, scare them off, hypnotise them, bribe them, or bluff them.  II think that suggesting that there is something wrong with the fundamental maths of the game might be more of a personal opinion than a widely held critical flaw?That said, there are ways to push the system too far if players are given access to those resources.  Barbarians with 20 Dex, 20 Con, Shield +3, Defensinve fighting style, Bracers of Defence, and a Ring of Protection (albeit it's not clear if the latter items are intended to stack with the AC from the class feature) could have AC29.  Ok you only have one attunement slot left but even so, an AC that high breaks bounded accuracy.  A cap at AC25 is probably sensible, which is where you end up if the AC from the class feature stacks with nothing other than a shield.</blockquote>

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