Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="MyISPHatesENWorld" data-source="post: 4602149" data-attributes="member: 65684">I don't like frustration/reward to extend past one encounter very often,&nbsp; and in 4e, with multiple waves of opponents and battles spanning multiple areas of the map, there really isn't a need for it to do so. It is easy to create encounters where players are initially frustrated, work to overcome their frustration and overcome it in one encounter. A brief hit by skirmishers or or snipers that fade away works to create tension and a little frustration, but that is because the players sren't stuck unable to do things for an entire normal length encounter.An entire encounter of frustration and one encounter that is accomplishment is one hour of fun, maybe, if the player isn't in a bad mood for the rest of the session after spending an hour doing nothing. Two encounters with a mix of frustration and accomplishment make two hours of fun.Indiana Jones fails a lot, and it is enioyable for the audience to watch, but Indiana Jones isn't enjoying it. Similarly, though it may be enjoyable for the DM to watch, players aren't enjoying long bouts of frustration.When you extend a frustration/reward cycle over time, it can take on elements of an abusive relationship (like a lot of DM behavior can). Players tolerate more and more abuse in hopes that it will get better because they have time invested or because they are afraid they won't be able to find another game or whatever. But it isn't because more frustration or frustration over a longer period of time somehow becomes more enjoyable. Most players never enjoy suffering through an encounter that is nothing but frustration. And the idea that players have to let the DM make them suffer through unenjoyable encounters to 'earn' an enjoyable encounter isn't palatable to me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MyISPHatesENWorld, post: 4602149, member: 65684"] I don't like frustration/reward to extend past one encounter very often, and in 4e, with multiple waves of opponents and battles spanning multiple areas of the map, there really isn't a need for it to do so. It is easy to create encounters where players are initially frustrated, work to overcome their frustration and overcome it in one encounter. A brief hit by skirmishers or or snipers that fade away works to create tension and a little frustration, but that is because the players sren't stuck unable to do things for an entire normal length encounter. An entire encounter of frustration and one encounter that is accomplishment is one hour of fun, maybe, if the player isn't in a bad mood for the rest of the session after spending an hour doing nothing. Two encounters with a mix of frustration and accomplishment make two hours of fun. Indiana Jones fails a lot, and it is enioyable for the audience to watch, but Indiana Jones isn't enjoying it. Similarly, though it may be enjoyable for the DM to watch, players aren't enjoying long bouts of frustration. When you extend a frustration/reward cycle over time, it can take on elements of an abusive relationship (like a lot of DM behavior can). Players tolerate more and more abuse in hopes that it will get better because they have time invested or because they are afraid they won't be able to find another game or whatever. But it isn't because more frustration or frustration over a longer period of time somehow becomes more enjoyable. Most players never enjoy suffering through an encounter that is nothing but frustration. And the idea that players have to let the DM make them suffer through unenjoyable encounters to 'earn' an enjoyable encounter isn't palatable to me. [/QUOTE]

Verification