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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
How To Clone 4E Using 5E Rules
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7610210" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Ignoring the rules (that didn't suit you) /was/ how 1e was played, and is, IMHO, how best to play 5e, sure. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> It's definitely not how 3.x (RaW! RaW!) and 4e (updates! DDI!) were played.</p><p></p><p> For you, sure. For me, it's more nostalgia. I played 1e from 1980 through to 2e, and my 2e campaign was really more a hybrid between the two. After a 5 year break I came back to D&D with 3.0. I played /very little/ 1e or 2e in the WotC era, the occasional convention game.</p><p></p><p>So, OK, I have half your experience with AD&D - but it's still a lot of experience! IDK what 1e became for you after 20 or 30 years of continuous play, presumably quite different from what I remember from the 80s, let alone what it was for me after hybriding with 2e and applying excessive variants. So I guess we're not exactly on the same page.</p><p></p><p> It's a lot more feasible to use DM privilege to run any version of D&D (or rather a lot of other games) like TSR era eds than to run another ed like 3e or 4e, because of that difference in focus between DM-centric and player-centric or rules-centric. But, 5e has that same DM-centric (Empowerment) dynamic, so it naturally runs very much like 1e, and pushing it over the top and getting to the nostalgia factor, running a 1e module or the like, is pretty easy.</p><p></p><p> There's very little that was in 1e but is missing from 5e. </p><p>All the standard 1e PH character options are there (among many others), for instance. You have to squint a little to wait to 3rd level and accept an EK or a modular-MC'd PC as a classic Fighter/Magic-user or fighter/magic-user/thief. Psionics are /still/ in development and promise to be *nothing* like 1e psionics. The Bard is a class instead of a broken proto-PrC option. (But, I never allowed psionics and never once had a player try to get to Bard, so it's a non-issue, for me - in 30 years of play, you might've seen both any number of times.)</p><p></p><p>The same is not true of 4e or 3.x - there are multiple classes, for instance, that were in those eds, that are not in 5e. PrCs are sadly lacking from 5e as well, several sub-classes would've been much better-implemented as PrCs, and with 5e already using 3.x style MCing, there's no good reason not to give DM's a tool like that.</p><p></p><p></p><p> Moments ago, I mentioned a fellow DM who did just that - at least as far as running combats was concerned. So, not too bad, considering I just did it to myself. Of course, that was only from the DM perspective. 5e gives the DM latitude to run it very much like another edition if desired, you just judge success/failure, make rulings, and narrate results of player actions to be in accord with the past edition in question. From the player perspective, obviously, it's different.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But, to circle back around to the topic of /cloning/, 1e has already been cloned (Hackmaster /and/ OSRIC), so not really an issue.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7610210, member: 996"] Ignoring the rules (that didn't suit you) /was/ how 1e was played, and is, IMHO, how best to play 5e, sure. ;) It's definitely not how 3.x (RaW! RaW!) and 4e (updates! DDI!) were played. For you, sure. For me, it's more nostalgia. I played 1e from 1980 through to 2e, and my 2e campaign was really more a hybrid between the two. After a 5 year break I came back to D&D with 3.0. I played /very little/ 1e or 2e in the WotC era, the occasional convention game. So, OK, I have half your experience with AD&D - but it's still a lot of experience! IDK what 1e became for you after 20 or 30 years of continuous play, presumably quite different from what I remember from the 80s, let alone what it was for me after hybriding with 2e and applying excessive variants. So I guess we're not exactly on the same page. It's a lot more feasible to use DM privilege to run any version of D&D (or rather a lot of other games) like TSR era eds than to run another ed like 3e or 4e, because of that difference in focus between DM-centric and player-centric or rules-centric. But, 5e has that same DM-centric (Empowerment) dynamic, so it naturally runs very much like 1e, and pushing it over the top and getting to the nostalgia factor, running a 1e module or the like, is pretty easy. There's very little that was in 1e but is missing from 5e. All the standard 1e PH character options are there (among many others), for instance. You have to squint a little to wait to 3rd level and accept an EK or a modular-MC'd PC as a classic Fighter/Magic-user or fighter/magic-user/thief. Psionics are /still/ in development and promise to be *nothing* like 1e psionics. The Bard is a class instead of a broken proto-PrC option. (But, I never allowed psionics and never once had a player try to get to Bard, so it's a non-issue, for me - in 30 years of play, you might've seen both any number of times.) The same is not true of 4e or 3.x - there are multiple classes, for instance, that were in those eds, that are not in 5e. PrCs are sadly lacking from 5e as well, several sub-classes would've been much better-implemented as PrCs, and with 5e already using 3.x style MCing, there's no good reason not to give DM's a tool like that. Moments ago, I mentioned a fellow DM who did just that - at least as far as running combats was concerned. So, not too bad, considering I just did it to myself. Of course, that was only from the DM perspective. 5e gives the DM latitude to run it very much like another edition if desired, you just judge success/failure, make rulings, and narrate results of player actions to be in accord with the past edition in question. From the player perspective, obviously, it's different. But, to circle back around to the topic of /cloning/, 1e has already been cloned (Hackmaster /and/ OSRIC), so not really an issue. [/QUOTE]
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