How to create undead/constructs/robots using a point buy system?

[Ymdar]

You heard it!
How do you people balance the missing ability score (Con) while using a point buy system for (player) character generation?
- Less points?
Could be, less abilities mean more points for the remaining ones.
- Level Adjustment?
Could be, since a missing Con score is powerful.
- No balance needed?
Could be, since without a Con score the character cannot heal by itself, and doesn't get extra hit points for a high Con modifyer.
- Other?
Please Explain

 

[Stormborn]

If you are going to use point buy for anything other than standard races I think you have to make the template itself cost something. This would leave you with less points overall but might offset any boons you get from the type. Its going to work best in a system like BESM d20 where you can buy everything with points, but it may be doable with the d20 system as is. You just have to figure out what each thing costs specific to your setting.

EDIT: BTW, I never use point buy at all, so I may not know what I am talking about.

 

[DarkKestral]

If you are going to use point buy for anything other than standard races I think you have to make the template itself cost something. This would leave you with less points overall but might offset any boons you get from the type. Its going to work best in a system like BESM d20 where you can buy everything with points, but it may be doable with the d20 system as is. You just have to figure out what each thing costs specific to your setting.

EDIT: BTW, I never use point buy at all, so I may not know what I am talking about.

I wouldn't suggest doing that, because it requires first knowing how much a given level of power costs in terms of point buy or player LA. Since we don't yet know that, it's basically unworkable.

Now, I would start at a PB equal to normal minus the cost it takes to get Con to 10, Ymdar.

Begin some testing, see how often the con-less person wins, and readjust. If it's less often on average than an equally minmaxed person of a few different archetypes with the same number of levels through the level 1-20 power curve, then knock down the PB adjustment. If they win, raise it. Once you've gotten it to about even, you've got a good LA+0. If you want it to be a LA race, start working up the LAs till you find something you like and test it against minmaxed versions of that race.

 

[TheNovaLord]

In my home scifi d20 dont use point buy either

My synthetic people do have CON score as they are 'sentient' i decided they can be stunned and a few other conditions.

Cab players be an animated stautue or golem? I think if they have an intellect then they need a con because of various conditions that can happen to them?

JohnD

 

[DarkKestral]

Officially, robots, golems, and undead do not get con scores, even if sentient.

 

[Ymdar]

Well I took a look at Libris Mortis, and various other D&D books to see what WoTC has to say on this topic.
What I got was this:

CREATING AN UNDEAD CHARACTER
One method of using these classes is to begin play as a 1st-level undead character. To do so, follow the normal steps for creating a starting character, including the selection of a race (such as human or dwarf). Remember that even though you’re playing a ghoul or vampire spawn, you were something else before that, and that something else is represented by your race.

So imho you _could_ theoretically create a PC with no con score (an undead in this example) by putting 0 points to the con (thus having a con score of 8). The transition of losing Con would eliminate the Con score.

This was of course only rules lawyering. I kinda tend to agree with losing points worth a score of 10. I'm just curious where this number came from. (I know I asked this once somewhere, but forgot by now.)

 

[Ymdar]

EDIT: BTW, I never use point buy at all, so I may not know what I am talking about.

I was just referring to the D&D ability point buy system where you can buy your stats for given points, you don't have to buy the class abilities and other stuff.

And I don't think my players would like a heavily modded system which would use BESM d20 and d20 modern.

 

[Nadaka]

technically sentient means the ability to feel pain. So any robot with a damage detection & avoidance system is sentient. This might mean the creature should have a con, or it might not, as con encompasses a lot more than just handling pain.

 

[GreatLemur]

technically sentient means the ability to feel pain.

Not really, no.

 

[DarkKestral]

Well I took a look at Libris Mortis, and various other D&D books to see what WoTC has to say on this topic.
What I got was this:


So imho you _could_ theoretically create a PC with no con score (an undead in this example) by putting 0 points to the con (thus having a con score of 8). The transition of losing Con would eliminate the Con score.

This was of course only rules lawyering. I kinda tend to agree with losing points worth a score of 10. I'm just curious where this number came from. (I know I asked this once somewhere, but forgot by now.)

I based it off of the fact that racial averages assume 10.5 for ability scores, therefore half are 11s and half are 10s. Since 10's the lower end, we can go from there and work up or down. This way, you're assuming it's equal in power to being of average constitution before racial modifiers.