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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 7086289" data-attributes="member: 2525">I agree.&nbsp; The orcs don't know the invaders can see magic at whim.&nbsp; Their shaman might make a magical trap not knowing the invaders will spot it with this.&nbsp; Using the rules to find ways to intentionally make it more difficult (or even impossible) to spot with detect magic isn't being adversarial to the characters - it's just plain being adversarial to the players in my view. That player chose to give up other options which, let's be honest, are generally considered much more powerful than this one.&nbsp; Finding ways in the rules to counter the less-powerful and much more situational ability seems adversarial to the player.&nbsp; It just smacks of, &quot;Oooh you made a mistake in character generation by choosing that ability because I, the DM, can think of lots of ways to make it nearly useless! Next time maybe you'll learn to choose a more optimized choice.&quot;On the other hand, if the goblin spy overhears the party talking about how they can see magic at will, the shaman might adjust his tactics to spread magic throughout a room (one one of which is a real trap) to confuse the character and prevent them from easily spotting the trap.&nbsp; That seems like a challenge to the characters, rather than the player.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 7086289, member: 2525"] I agree. The orcs don't know the invaders can see magic at whim. Their shaman might make a magical trap not knowing the invaders will spot it with this. Using the rules to find ways to intentionally make it more difficult (or even impossible) to spot with detect magic isn't being adversarial to the characters - it's just plain being adversarial to the players in my view. That player chose to give up other options which, let's be honest, are generally considered much more powerful than this one. Finding ways in the rules to counter the less-powerful and much more situational ability seems adversarial to the player. It just smacks of, "Oooh you made a mistake in character generation by choosing that ability because I, the DM, can think of lots of ways to make it nearly useless! Next time maybe you'll learn to choose a more optimized choice." On the other hand, if the goblin spy overhears the party talking about how they can see magic at will, the shaman might adjust his tactics to spread magic throughout a room (one one of which is a real trap) to confuse the character and prevent them from easily spotting the trap. That seems like a challenge to the characters, rather than the player. [/QUOTE]

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