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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 303382" data-attributes="member: 2020">I do not ever remember putting a wink symbol on one of my posts, but will do so this time.  This thread is new and unusual, concerning the film version of a Knife in the Dark, from FOTR.  Think about what a literal translation of that battle would have been like in 2nd edition Dungeon and Dragons terms (I have no choice but to use 2nd edition since 3rd edition continues to throw me, folks.)  If you go by the 2nd edition D&D game, using the film version of the event, we have four 0 level characters and one high level character, all with normal weapons and one with a torch as well, confronting five spectres armed with swords (the leader with a magical short sword as well.)  In the 2nd edition game, spectres drained 2 life levels per hit, and were immune to normal weapons.  Fire would damage them, but we are talking one torch to the five of them.  I think that, in the Dungeons and Dragons game at least, the outcome is a foregone ccnclusion.  If you go by the BOOK, using 2nd edition D&D rules, the situation for Frodo and Company is worse by far.  The hobbits had magical blades, and these blades were particularly potent against the Lord of the Ringwraiths, yes.  However, striking a Ringwraith had this tendency to kill you, via the Black Breath (as Merry and Eowyn almost discovered in ROTK.)    Methinks all the hobbits might have ended their days such, assuming the Ringwraiths did not simply hack them down where they stood, being the better at swordplay.  As for Aragorn, I would not lay odds on one man with torches against five armed wraiths.  Aragorn is a very fine combatant, yes, but I still think it lousy odds.  After all, if striking a Ringwraith did bad things to you, I'm willing to be being touched by them also did bad things to you (being hacked down by their blades, obviously, doesn't contribute to your health either.)    The name of Elbereth ... was ... deadly to the Lord of the Ringwraiths, and certainly the shouting of that name may have aided in saving Frodo's life.  However, I believe that the reason Frodo was not killed, along with all the rest of the company including Aragorn, is quite simple:  The Lord of the Ringwraiths saw he had wounded Frodo, and had every right to expect that wound to quickly overcome Frodo ... in other words, Frodo would come to him, as a wraith himself, and the Ring would be yielded up then.  Already wounded by the name of Elbereth, the Lord of the Ringwraiths did not care to be set aflame by the brand wielding maniac leaping at him, and preferred to let the Morgul Knife do it's work.  And why not?  Returning to the film ...  I see a case of Sam deciding to be heroic, and attacking the Ringwraiths.  Nice, but as Aragorn said at Bree:  your courage will not save you.  The Ringwraith gave Sam a good knock to the head and sent him flying.  Sam can count himself lucky a sore head is all he got from that - in the book, he might have died from the Black Breath.  The Ringwraiths obviously perceived the Ring.  They did not bother with Merry or Pippin, and simply grabbed them and pushed them aside.  Again, Pippin and Merry can count themselves lucky - in the book, such a touch from the Nazgul might have killed them pretty quick.  In any event, I see that Merry and Pippin (wisely) decided not to give any further battle to these monsters ... I'm even sure Frodo would have approved of their inaction, nevermind what befell him.  As for Aragorn versus the ringwraiths, it was different here in this film.  This was not D&D nor was this the book.  Aragorn was a champion swordsman, and he fought as one - he was clearly more than a match for the wraiths in that respect.    The Ringwraiths, in the film, made the small mistake of wearing those heavy black cloaks, which had this tendency to burn - and fire DID hurt the ringwraiths ... it must have hurt like crazy, being burned alive (or unalive?) in those cloaks they had used to give shape to their nothingness.  I doubt the one Ringwraith appreciated having the torch thrown in his face, either (the torch stuck, too ... now THAT must have been seriously painful!)  I notice that in the film the Ringwraiths do not draw off and give the Morgul Wound time to work it's magic - they pursue the Company closely (or, at least, it's implied they pursue the Company closely.)  ... I ... would have pursued them, if I had been set on fire by this louse of a Man and had been burned alive!  I would have caught up with them, and taken them all alive ... and started cutting off fingers and toes, one by one, with my Morgul longsword ... or perhaps tested the sharpness of my blade by skinning said human mongrel alive.    No swift and kindly death, for these Rebels against Sauron the Great, who put fire to my lovely flesh!  As for the She-Elf daughter of that criminal, Elrond the Half-Wit ... I would have shot her down as she tried to play horsewoman and run from me.  Then I would have tested that renown Quendi endurance of hers, by gouging out bits of her body with my claws, piece by piece.  What lesser fate should be handed out to these criminal, deluded, and hurtful Rebels who presumed to believe that they were exempt from the rulership of Sauron the Great, Lord of the Earth?  What lesser, kinder fate would be just for such rats?</blockquote>

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