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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6475036" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Great post&nbsp; [MENTION=23240]steenan[/MENTION] .&nbsp; Its a pity that it hasn't gotten more traction with/commentary from other posters in this thread.&nbsp; Unsurprisingly, I agree.This isn't always true.&nbsp; While it is true that a great many systems do line up classic TTRPG incentives (win/achieve your primary goals and you progress/advance your character) to create a feedback loop that rewards min/maxing, that isn't the only primary goal:xp paradigm out there.&nbsp; You can make character progress/advancement either outright at tension with or orthogonal to &quot;winning&quot;.&nbsp; This creates a dynamic where &quot;winning&quot; is irrelevant to or outright adverse toward character progression.&nbsp; Obviously, this throws a monkeywrench in the machinery that pushes players toward min/max mindset.Some obvious ways of doing this are removing &quot;xp&quot; from achieving the &quot;win condition&quot; as the primary (or sole) mode of character advancement and in its stead have:1)&nbsp; xp or advancement for failure or losing (both micro failure at this or that task and macro failure in that there is legitimately negative fallout when some &quot;loss condition&quot; is met in a conflict).2)&nbsp; xp or advancement for the performance or resolution of thematic material embedded into your character that doesn't directly coincide with the &quot;win condition&quot; (for the classic conflicts of the genre - eg slaying monsters) being met.3)&nbsp; xp or advancement for changing, provoking, or discovering aspects of the world that make for a mutually beneficial gameplay experience for the table's participants.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6475036, member: 6696971"] Great post [MENTION=23240]steenan[/MENTION] . Its a pity that it hasn't gotten more traction with/commentary from other posters in this thread. Unsurprisingly, I agree. This isn't always true. While it is true that a great many systems do line up classic TTRPG incentives (win/achieve your primary goals and you progress/advance your character) to create a feedback loop that rewards min/maxing, that isn't the only primary goal:xp paradigm out there. You can make character progress/advancement either outright at tension with or orthogonal to "winning". This creates a dynamic where "winning" is irrelevant to or outright adverse toward character progression. Obviously, this throws a monkeywrench in the machinery that pushes players toward min/max mindset. Some obvious ways of doing this are removing "xp" from achieving the "win condition" as the primary (or sole) mode of character advancement and in its stead have: 1) xp or advancement for failure or losing (both micro failure at this or that task and macro failure in that there is legitimately negative fallout when some "loss condition" is met in a conflict). 2) xp or advancement for the performance or resolution of thematic material embedded into your character that doesn't directly coincide with the "win condition" (for the classic conflicts of the genre - eg slaying monsters) being met. 3) xp or advancement for changing, provoking, or discovering aspects of the world that make for a mutually beneficial gameplay experience for the table's participants. [/QUOTE]

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