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<blockquote data-quote="Toledo" data-source="post: 7415436" data-attributes="member: 6881873">For example, in my second session, I had a bar fight with 5-11 HP human thugs, 2-30 HP lieutenants, and 1-55 HP leader (all fighters).&nbsp; All these guys were out of the back of the Monster Manual.I expected (wanted) the foes to win, and to stick the party in jail for fighting.&nbsp; Every one of the bad guys was only doing subdual damage, so no kills to the party (6 Level 1 characters - 2 bards, cleric, 2 fighters, sorcerer).&nbsp; I realize that is a lot of bad guy HP and attacks relative to the party, but since everything was subdual, I didn't think it was horrid - in the worst case everyone is in jail.Actually, I thought the bad guys were likely to win, but the party eventually won.&nbsp; I had a different opinion of what subdual damage was supposed to do - I thought it knocked people out for the duration of the fight unless the party healed themselves, etc.&nbsp; But all the players were telling me subdual (unconscious) was only for D4 rounds.&nbsp; I don't know if that is a house rule, but I couldn't find it in the book, so ruled it as D4+1 rounds.&nbsp; Eventually the party won - they wouldn't have if playing by how I thought the rules are, but like I said, I couldn't find subdual damage so quickly in the middle of the fight.The long and short of it is that the party said &quot;Boy, that is a super tough fight, we're all going to be at third level.&quot;&nbsp; No, not really - the XP and subdual damage don't suggest that - six characters bounced back from being knocked out.&nbsp; If I had made it killing damage, for sure that would be a completely overpowered fight.&nbsp; Everyone will go from 0 or 250 (first week attendees) to second level - roughly 350-400 (likely 400) XP for this fight and one smaller one, plus role playing in the 400 XP.&nbsp; My primary point is that I wanted to make sure exactly how many XP custom built characters are worth, so that I can properly balance encounters when the foes are trying to kill the party, not take them to jail.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Toledo, post: 7415436, member: 6881873"] For example, in my second session, I had a bar fight with 5-11 HP human thugs, 2-30 HP lieutenants, and 1-55 HP leader (all fighters). All these guys were out of the back of the Monster Manual. I expected (wanted) the foes to win, and to stick the party in jail for fighting. Every one of the bad guys was only doing subdual damage, so no kills to the party (6 Level 1 characters - 2 bards, cleric, 2 fighters, sorcerer). I realize that is a lot of bad guy HP and attacks relative to the party, but since everything was subdual, I didn't think it was horrid - in the worst case everyone is in jail. Actually, I thought the bad guys were likely to win, but the party eventually won. I had a different opinion of what subdual damage was supposed to do - I thought it knocked people out for the duration of the fight unless the party healed themselves, etc. But all the players were telling me subdual (unconscious) was only for D4 rounds. I don't know if that is a house rule, but I couldn't find it in the book, so ruled it as D4+1 rounds. Eventually the party won - they wouldn't have if playing by how I thought the rules are, but like I said, I couldn't find subdual damage so quickly in the middle of the fight. The long and short of it is that the party said "Boy, that is a super tough fight, we're all going to be at third level." No, not really - the XP and subdual damage don't suggest that - six characters bounced back from being knocked out. If I had made it killing damage, for sure that would be a completely overpowered fight. Everyone will go from 0 or 250 (first week attendees) to second level - roughly 350-400 (likely 400) XP for this fight and one smaller one, plus role playing in the 400 XP. My primary point is that I wanted to make sure exactly how many XP custom built characters are worth, so that I can properly balance encounters when the foes are trying to kill the party, not take them to jail. [/QUOTE]

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