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Message: <blockquote data-quote="3catcircus" data-source="post: 7973958" data-attributes="member: 16077">I don't agree with the characterization of Titus Pullo or Marc Antony - and to a lesser extent Octavian.Yes, yes Titus Pullo killed a bunch of people - arguably the only evil act of them all was Eirene's love interest.  However, in the society in which he operated, killing in and of itself was not necessarily considered evil unless it was against the head of the household, your own parents or relatives, patricians, senators, etc.  Killing of slaves?  Completely legal if you owned them.  If someone else's - it was treated as a property crime rather than a crime against a person.  Killing someone lower on the social pyramid?  Most likely a fine.  So - killing of Eirene's love interest (another of Vorenus's slaves) was not a serious crime - Pullo just owed Vorenus money for loss of use of his property.As to Marc Antony?  As a general and politician, I'd say he is clearly LE - he uses the law and his position to his advantage, but doesn't see his acts as evil (as almost all LE characters see themselves).  Scheming, politicking, etc. weren't evil - they were woven into every aspect of Roman society.Octavian exhibits pretty much every awful character aspects around.  Craven, petty, given to being capricious and tyrannical, but he does work somewhat within the existing law and did show loyalty to Caesar (in exchange for honors and accolades provided to him).  I'd put him closer to NE, just like his mother.The problem here is that we are trying to establish alignment traits based upon modern western societal values that are vastly different than those in the ancient world which had vastly different values due to a vastly harsher set of living conditions.  I mean - it was considered completely normal and acceptable, for example, to take a newborn born with congenital deformities, or even a female if one wanted a male child, out into the elements and let it die of exposure.  The appearance of "good" was more important than the actual practice of it. Members of the ruling class would scheme day and night to advance their own power, at the expense of their peers. The six degrees of separation aspects were paramount to doing business, advancing your interests, and beating your competitors. Bureucratic appointments were done to place your minions and supporters in key positions, or to place rivals at a disadvantage. Oftentimes people were appointed because they were incompetent and so unable to wield or abuse power effectively.Its also interesting to note that large portions of the modern world still revolve around such values.  Bribery is expected throughout Africa, the Middle East, Asia, Eastern Europe, and Central/South America.  The saving of face and the appearance of tranquility is paramount throughout Asia.  Personal honor and honor killings abound throughout the Middle East, Africa and SW Asia.</blockquote>

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