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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8832825" data-attributes="member: 93670">5e rejected the slower power for greater eventual power elements once present in d&amp;d.&nbsp; Using it to justify unrestricted no cost multiclass rules&nbsp; calls into question the wisdom of both choices.&nbsp; Even beyond that though the GM at the table needs to handle a problem wotc deliberately created when faced with a table where Alice just got or lost the one big distinction setting her single class apart from bob's MC dip on top of her same class&nbsp; with the game expected to continue.&nbsp; I've seen this regularly&nbsp; where Alice has a sorcerer &amp; bob has a sorcerer with 2 levels of warlock...[spoiler=&quot;stuff Bob has over Alice from 11&quot;]<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">an at will 120ft&nbsp; (1d10+5)*3 </li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hex to often make that (1d10+5+1d6)*3&nbsp; whenever the damage is important enough to matter.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">either each of those 3 blasts include a 5 foot no save knockback rider or bob is probably sporting devils sight.&nbsp; Given 5e's efforts to obliviate the impact of darkness it's probably going to be the knockback from repelling unless as a GM I've done things to somehow make the darkness bob now obliviates have an even greater impact for Alice to feel</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">3 warlock spells</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">two 2nd level pact slots</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">A warlock patron boon like an at will invisible imp or the ability to cast ritual spells from a book.</li>
</ul>[/spoiler][spoiler=&quot;Stuff Alice has over Bob from 11&quot;]<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Two sorcerer spells known (one less than the 3 warlock ones Bob got)</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">A single metamagic choice (till Bob has one more level</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Two sorcerer spells known (1 less than bob got from his warlock dip)</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">A single level 6 spell slot</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Two sorcery points/long rest (this is four less than the six bob can pull from those pact slots each long or short rest)</li>
</ul>[/spoiler]As levels continue Alice will continue seeing very little gain over Bob's loss &amp; certainly nothing that makes up for the massive gains&nbsp; Bob already collected</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8832825, member: 93670"] 5e rejected the slower power for greater eventual power elements once present in d&d. Using it to justify unrestricted no cost multiclass rules calls into question the wisdom of [I]both[/I] choices. Even beyond that though the GM at the table needs to handle a problem wotc deliberately created when faced with a table where Alice just got or lost the one big distinction setting her single class apart from bob's MC dip on top of her same class with the game expected to continue. I've seen this regularly where Alice has a sorcerer & bob has a sorcerer with 2 levels of warlock... [spoiler="stuff Bob has over Alice from 11"] [LIST] [*]an at will 120ft (1d10+5)*3 [*]Hex to often make that (1d10+5+1d6)*3 whenever the damage is important enough to matter. [*]either each of those 3 blasts include a 5 foot no save knockback rider or bob is probably sporting devils sight. Given 5e's efforts to obliviate the impact of darkness it's probably going to be the knockback from repelling unless as a GM I've done things to somehow make the darkness bob now obliviates have an even greater impact for Alice to feel [*]3 warlock spells [*]two 2nd level pact slots [*]A warlock patron boon like an at will invisible imp or the ability to cast ritual spells from a book. [/LIST] [/spoiler] [spoiler="Stuff Alice has over Bob from 11"] [LIST] [*]Two sorcerer spells known (one less than the 3 warlock ones Bob got) [*]A single metamagic choice (till Bob has one more level [*]Two sorcerer spells known (1 less than bob got from his warlock dip) [*]A single level 6 spell slot [*]Two sorcery points/long rest (this is four less than the [I]six[/I] bob can pull from those pact slots each long or short rest) [/LIST] [/spoiler] As levels continue Alice will continue seeing very little gain over Bob's loss & certainly nothing that makes up for the massive gains Bob already collected [/QUOTE]

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