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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8833036" data-attributes="member: 7030563">With a 2-level dip I disgree with this on many levels. Obviously specifics matter but in General at 11th level I think Alice will be about as powerful as Bob, less in a couple combinations, more in a couple others.  Not all the stuff you list for Bob is accurate though for a 2-level dip (see below).To start with at level 11 Alice has 6th level spells, but Alice also got 3rd level spells 2 levels earlier, she also got her 6th level subclass ability 2 levels earlier.  Having Hound of Ill Omen for example at 6th and 7th level puts her well ahead of Bob at those levels as does having access to Fear, Haste or Fireball at levels 5 and 6 instead of waiting to level 7. When you make it to 11th level Hex is generally a poor use of concentration.  Yes you are multiclassed, so you can use 1st level slots on it, so it is probably worth keeping on the list but an extra 1d6 per attack is not nearly as powerful as say Animate Objects or Summon Fey (which the 11th level character can upcast to 6th level) or even a lower level concentration spell like Fear or Wall of Fire.Let's go through this point by point:Bob<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">an at will 120ft  (1d10+5)*3</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hex to often make that (1d10+5+1d6)*3  whenever the damage is important enough to matter.</li> </ul>This is really the best thing Bob has but EB/AB and Hex is most effective at tier 1 and tier 2  but tier 1 and tier 2 is when you are also paying the highest price for being behind in spell level and sorcerer subclass abilities.  Eldritch blast/Agonizing Blast are an extra 15 DPR (25 with Hex) but that is not very relevant at 11th level unless you were trying to build a blaster and then you would have been better off staying Warlock and getting a bunch of other invocations to enhance EB<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">either each of those 3 blasts include a 5 foot no save knockback rider or bob is probably sporting devils sight.  Given 5e's efforts to obliviate the impact of darkness it's probably going to be the knockback from repelling unless as a GM I've done things to somehow make the darkness bob now obliviates have an even greater impact for Alice to fee</li> </ul>You only have 2 invocations, you spent one on Agonizing Blast so it is either devils sight or Repelling Blast, not both.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3 warlock spells</li> </ul>Three more first level spells known.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">two 2nd level pact slots</li> </ul>INCORRECT!  You have two 1st level pact slots on a 2-level Warlock Dip<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A warlock patron boon like an at will invisible imp or the ability to cast ritual spells from a book.</li> </ul>INCORRECT!  You do not get this on a 2-level Warlock dip.  Pact Boon comes at 3rd level.  Additionally to cast rituals from a book requires both a Pact Boon and the Book of Shadows Invocation which means a 5-level Warlock dip if you want to do this and also have agonizing blast and repelling blast or Devils Sight.  Having all 4 of  these things (Rituals, Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast, Devils Sight) requires 7 levels in Warlock which would make you a Warlock 7/Sorcerer 4Alice<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Two sorcerer spells known (one less than the 3 warlock ones Bob got)\</li> </ul>Yes one less total spell known, but Alice's two extra Sorcerer spells are 6th level spells, Bob's three Warlock spells are 1st level spells.  Alice also has 2 more 5th level spells known than Bob has.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A single metamagic choice</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A single level 6 spell slot</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Two sorcery points/long rest (this is four less than the six bob can pull from those pact slots each long or short rest)</li> </ul>Yes, but only if Bob does not use those slots to cast 1st level spells.So when you get down to it to simplify this discussion Bob has a better at will damage option in exchange for a 6th level spell slot and another metamagic option.  He also has either 4 more SPs or 2 less SPs and 6 more 1st level spell casting.  That is all, and he either waited late to bring this online or he was well behind Alice at 3rd-8th levels.Finally a single-class optimized 11th level Wizard, Fey Wanderer Ranger or a number of Cleric options will still blow this multiclassed character out of the water.</blockquote>

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