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<blockquote data-quote="Jer" data-source="post: 8536857" data-attributes="member: 19857">Meanwhile this is something I almost never see as a problem because my players don't see it as a problem. I find that Light especially seems to be a useless cantrip to take when everyone else in the party has low light vision anyway.&nbsp; The problems we see tend to come with the higher level spells.(I think that these kinds of assumptions about gameplay make conversations like this hard.&nbsp; Your list and responses indicate that you and your players like a real low magic game.&nbsp; My tables are almost always high magic tables because that's the kind of fantasy my friends and family enjoy. Reducing magic is out because my tables would insist that we play something else instead.)On this we can agree wholeheartedly.&nbsp; Even with &quot;bounded accuracy&quot; saves are still too far apart as level increases. And at the risk of taking this off on a tangent the decision to create &quot;Saving Throws&quot; for each ability score - doubling the number of saves from 3e and increasing by 1 the number of saves from 1e/2e - really feels like a hack to get something they could call a &quot;saving throw&quot; into the game for tradition's sake. The overlap between Saving Throws and skills also confuses even some experienced players from other editions - &quot;why is that a strength save instead of an Athletics check?&quot; is a question that has no real good answer.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jer, post: 8536857, member: 19857"] Meanwhile this is something I almost never see as a problem because my players don't see it as a problem. I find that Light especially seems to be a useless cantrip to take when everyone else in the party has low light vision anyway. The problems we see tend to come with the higher level spells. (I think that these kinds of assumptions about gameplay make conversations like this hard. Your list and responses indicate that you and your players like a real low magic game. My tables are almost always high magic tables because that's the kind of fantasy my friends and family enjoy. Reducing magic is out because my tables would insist that we play something else instead.) On this we can agree wholeheartedly. Even with "bounded accuracy" saves are still too far apart as level increases. And at the risk of taking this off on a tangent the decision to create "Saving Throws" for each ability score - doubling the number of saves from 3e and increasing by 1 the number of saves from 1e/2e - really feels like a hack to get something they could call a "saving throw" into the game for tradition's sake. The overlap between Saving Throws and skills also confuses even some experienced players from other editions - "why is that a strength save instead of an Athletics check?" is a question that has no real good answer. [/QUOTE]

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