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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5717705" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, but when you go down that road every single little bit of magic in the game has endless ramifications. That way lies madness.Teleport for instance. Sure, it COULD be that there are permanent known circles you can use. Or there might not be, or they're incredibly rare and hard to find. Teleport is more of an "if you think ahead then maybe you can prepare a retreat" than anything else. A way into someplace only exists if the DM places it there. Even if the party has a circle to retreat to they still have to have time to cast the ritual to teleport. It is a LOT different than the old style 'teleport anywhere' setup, which was in so many ways horrible. It made the DM actively plan against it, and then the success chance roll was basically a "roll some dice not to be dead" which was crap too. I think the 4e version is WAY better thought out, and if you want it to have minimal implications on the setting, then it does.The worst case rituals are the higher level divinations really. My take on those is that the DM may restrict their utility. Honestly the end result with those is they are pure plot devices. They either work when the DM says they do, or they don't work if he says no. You'll never get around that with ANY implementation of that kind of magic. You can restrict things, and that's OK, but it seemed to me that the OP's DM's response was a bit knee-jerk. There are plenty of rituals that the DM really should be saying "wow, you want to play with that, GOOD!"</blockquote>

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