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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 8181109" data-attributes="member: 6801845">If you have a truly endless stream of bad guys you have two goals.First, you need to reinforce that simply fighting the bad guys is going to ultimately fail.&nbsp; The trick is how to do it without DM fiat, a boring slog or leave people with a sense of hopelessness.So one possibility is to set up an initial encounter where they have to fight a mob. Make it a tough fight but winnable.&nbsp; Then let them know that this was merely the first wave and they now see wave after wave coming at them.&nbsp; Fighting them all is not going to be an option.Alternative is to just throw the endless mob but give them a temporary escape/safe spot.Next now that they realize they can't win the day through fighting head on, give them multiple options on how to redirect, bypass, nullify or push through.&nbsp; The tricky part is giving them enough options that they feel empowered and have options.So yes, you can treat the mobs like a hazard/trap.&nbsp; Maybe a PC have to get from point A to point B to drop a drawbridge.&nbsp; Others can assist (ranged attacks vs enemies, illusions and so on) but one PC simply has to work their way through the mob and make strength/athletics checks with DC reduced by actions of the rest of the party, possibly with advantage if the party is clever.So at that point I'd probably want to try to set up different scenarios with different scenes requiring different skills and solutions, or possibly multiple solutions.In addition, of course there's always the &quot;you failed at that part of the challenge so roll initiative to fight your way to safety&quot;.Hmm.&nbsp; I may have to steal this idea.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 8181109, member: 6801845"] If you have a truly endless stream of bad guys you have two goals. First, you need to reinforce that simply fighting the bad guys is going to ultimately fail. The trick is how to do it without DM fiat, a boring slog or leave people with a sense of hopelessness. So one possibility is to set up an initial encounter where they have to fight a mob. Make it a tough fight but winnable. Then let them know that this was merely the first wave and they now see wave after wave coming at them. Fighting them all is not going to be an option. Alternative is to just throw the endless mob but give them a temporary escape/safe spot. Next now that they realize they can't win the day through fighting head on, give them multiple options on how to redirect, bypass, nullify or push through. The tricky part is giving them enough options that they feel empowered and have options. So yes, you can treat the mobs like a hazard/trap. Maybe a PC have to get from point A to point B to drop a drawbridge. Others can assist (ranged attacks vs enemies, illusions and so on) but one PC simply has to work their way through the mob and make strength/athletics checks with DC reduced by actions of the rest of the party, possibly with advantage if the party is clever. So at that point I'd probably want to try to set up different scenarios with different scenes requiring different skills and solutions, or possibly multiple solutions. In addition, of course there's always the "you failed at that part of the challenge so roll initiative to fight your way to safety". Hmm. I may have to steal this idea. [/QUOTE]

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