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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2110669" data-attributes="member: 2011">If you are in the Thieves Guild, everyone is aware of everyone else. Hence, no surprise round (or, maybe a Spot roll to notice one thief attempting to kill the Wizard). If everyone makes their Spot roll (or the DM declares that there is no surprise because everyone is aware of everyone else and expecting an attack), then you roll initiative and are in round one.One thief decided to attack the Wizard. He wins initiative.. 1 2 3 4 5 6T . . . . . . . W. 7 8 9101112Now granted, 12 is a bit of an exaggeration, but it can be done. The Thief (T) here moves on round one past all 12 of the Wizard's (W) PC allies and attacks. Nobody can stop him because they cannot AoO while flatfooted. And, he gets sneak attack damage against the Wizard as well.Even though everyone was ready for this and in normal combat rounds (i.e. after round one) it cannot happen without other factors (such as Tumbling or PCs out of AoO attempts or whatever).In fact, this is the opposite of what should happen. In combat, the other PCs should be distracted by other opponents and have LESS of a chance of stopping the thief. But, instead they have less of a chance (i.e. zero if they did not win initiative and do not have Combat Reflexes) when they are prepared for an attack and not yet distracted by other opponents.And I think the example of the King with his guards is better. Sure, they could have Combat Reflexes and avoid the problem, but that's not really the point.A high level normal Guard (i.e. without Combat Reflexes) who trained for combat all of his life and is prepared for an attack helplessly watches as the disguised Assassin runs 30 feet and kills the King. The Assassin can move 30 feet and attack before the Guard can try to stop him, trip him or whatever. Even though the Guard was pointing his halberd at the disguised Assassin, too bad. The Assassin wins.That's not what happens in real life combat and that is why it is a bit nonsensical.</blockquote>

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