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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2111694" data-attributes="member: 2011">Not always.If he is in disguise, they might be caught somewhat unaware. Four possibilities (as an example):1) The assassin attacks, wins init, and the guards are surprised.The King dies.2) The assassin attacks, loses init, and the guards are surprised.The King dies.3) The assassin attacks, wins init, and the guards are not surprised.The King dies.4) The assassin attacks, loses init, and the guards are not surprised.The Assassin dies.The problem I have here is #3. Even though the guards are not surprised, the King still dies (because everyone except the Assassin is flat-footed).I think the King should only die if his guards are surprised (i.e. whether he dies or not is irrelevant, but whether his guards are flat-footed or not when they are not surprised is). IMO.I am looking right at you. I expect an attack. We are NOT talking about surprise here, that is what the surprise round is for.You are effectively saying that it is ok for you to surprise me in a surprise round (which I am ok with) and it is ALSO ok for you to surprise me when I am aware of you and expecting an attack as well. Attacking me first before I can act when I am aware and expecting an attack is ok, but surprising (i.e. making me flat-footed) me (without a feint or some other special feat or skill) is not. IMO.The DMG even states: "Other times, the aware side has a few rounds to prepare. (If its members see the other side off in the distance, heading their way for example.) You should track time in rounds at this point to determine how much the aware characters can accomplish. Once the two sides come into contact, the aware characters can take a standard action while the unaware characters do nothing. Keep in mind that if the aware characters alert the unaware side before actual contact is made, both sides are treated as aware."This means that if my group is aware of your group and you are unaware of us, then once we come into contact, my group goes on the surprise round (i.e. "can take a standard action").If we accidentally made you aware of us before then, then it is normal initiative.This means (illogically) that I can prepare for combat (i.e. cast spells and such) and watch you approach and if you get tipped off, you could win initiative in round one and still attack me while I am flat-footed, EVEN THOUGH I was aware of you the entire time and you are only suddenly aware of me.The actions I do before combat starts are not considered combat actions and do not apply towards removing flat-footed.</blockquote>

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