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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FreeTheSlaves" data-source="post: 2111902" data-attributes="member: 9952">The surprise round does not always occur. One side has to have the jump on the other, saying "we attack" first is _not_ getting the jump. The saying we attack is merely the players telling the DM that the characters are going to attack - the characters then have to use their own reflexes to carry that out.Ways to get the jump on someone include:a) hide yourself with the hide skillb) come within spotting distance in the outdoors/indoors and win the spot check as per the DMG gives, while they fail theirs (although depending on terrain/lighting there may be some distance between the groups)c) disguise yourself within a crowd and use the sleight of hand to draw a poisoned daggerd) use listen to hear the drunken orcs behind the door making crude jokes and silently bring the party up, and nod "1...2...Go!"Btw Karin's Dad, if you don't like the highly variable initiative you can force everyone to take 10 and come up with fixed initiative scores. That means the low initiative characters will never beat the higher.</blockquote>