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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lonely Tylenol" data-source="post: 2116561" data-attributes="member: 18549">Now, can you provide some reference that says when combat starts?In my game, I fudge initiative a lot when it would make sense.  Take, for example, the goblins on the other side of the door.  They heard the party arguing about the best way to ambush the goblins on the other side of the door, and got behind a table, aiming their crossbows to hit anything opening the door.  Now, about 30 seconds later, the party flings open the door, and combat begins with one of the dexterity-based fighters running in.  Wham, he gets hit with a crossbow bolt, and the other misses.The player cries foul.  He rolled a 24 for initiative, and the goblins couldn't have both beat him, I mean, they're goblins...how can they have a dex that high?Well, I tell him, they've been in combat rounds for 30 seconds, ever since they set themselves up to nail you with those crossbow bolt.  You just entered combat.  Using the new combatant rules, we find that new combatants entering a combat scene when they are aware of the foes come in at an initiative just before the highest-initiative character in the combat.  They do this.  But the goblins have been spending 5 rounds performing ready actions to shoot anyone coming through the door.  Their initiative changes to be just before the party, even though the party's initiative was set at just before the goblins' turn...but the goblins' turn would be to set a ready action for a 6th round.  So they strike first, and then the party all get to act in order of initiative bonus (since they all enter combat on the same initiative number).My take on when combat begins is that it begins when two things happen:1. A character becomes aware of another character he might want to do something violent to.2. That character pulls out a weapon, readies a spell, etc. and either attacks or gets ready to attack on a condition that could reasonably be expected to happen in under a minute.  After a minute, the goblins will probably start to wonder if the party is ever going to open that door, and maybe spend a round or two making standard-action listen checks instead of ready actions.</blockquote>

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