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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gantros" data-source="post: 2118960" data-attributes="member: 15836">Okay... the point I was disputing was that initiating combat always = rolling for initiative.  I think the frustrating part was that you made those two points which no one was disputing, and presented them as proof that you can't start a battle with a readied action.  What I've been debating in this thread is, can you ready an action prior to anyone rolling initiative, thus allowing you a chance to act before someone else when hostilities start and avoid being flat-footed, even if they win initiative.My position is that yes, in some circumstances this is possible without having to change the rules.  I didn't want to quote a large passage from the DMG, but essentially the example I referenced says that once one or both parties become aware of the other, the DM can start tracking rounds (effectively initiating combat), and the combatants can take preparatory actions.  As long as none of these actions are contested (i.e. it doesn't matter who goes first), then there is no need to roll initiative.  I submit that during this time it is allowable for someone to Ready an action.  Once a contested action does occur, initiative is rolled and any readied actions are resolved normally.I think along the way some confusion has been created around whether someone can force combat to start by readying an action, which sounds like it violates the rules.  Perhaps a better way to put it is, if someone decides that they want to ready an action, and the DM decides that it makes sense to do so, then combat should be started at that point, allowing the Ready action to be taken.  By starting combat, the DM also gives the opposing party an opportunity to take actions of their own, if they are aware of the threat.  If the actions taken by each side result in some form of interaction where the order of action is important, then intiative must be rolled and combat proceeds as normal.I believe this solves the problem that prompted this thread, and can gracefully handle all the other scenarios presented along its course.  I also believe it doesn't break any rules, although it may not be obvious that this is allowable from they way they are written.  I was hoping people could think of any cases where this just wouldn't work, or would result in unrealistic situations.</blockquote>

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