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Message: <blockquote data-quote="touc" data-source="post: 9795257" data-attributes="member: 19270">I've run some 5E epic campaigns (levels 14+), and here's my take:Universal<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D&D monster manual bosses are underwhelming. I believe every single one needs "phases" of battle changes (e.g. at 75%, they shed any disabling spells, and something new happens like reinforcements or tapping into the cages of villagers to begin powering itself, at 50% this happens, and so on).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">High level play needs times for those epic non-combat abilities to shine. Running a kingdom and an emergency comes up, use that mass fly like a cloud ability or teleport circles, and so on. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Giving out magic items, especially boosts to attacks, saves, and AC, change the game dramatically. That's ok, but you can't rely on CR at this point.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Reinforcements. Since it's impossible to judge encounter strength at high levels, waves of enemies let the DM add a challenge if needed (or you can forgo it if not). You can't rely on a prewritten # of monsters anymore. Deep down, from a mechanical standpoint, back to the AD&D days, players were meant to exhaust resources on their way to the BBEG finale. It was just a matter of logistics whether these were potions, scrolls, spells, HP, and so on.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Terrain matters. I had a side trek once into a pocket dimension from a Dungeon Magazine adventure wherein it was a cube base on the negative plane. If you bypassed the wrong wall, goodbye forever. Players weren't robbed of their abilities. Rather, they had to be judicious when using. </li> </ul>Out of the Abyss (15th)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Demon lords as written were pathetic. These are eons-old demigods and they shouldn't just fall over to some folks who picked up a sword just a few weeks ago. I went with the finale option of letting the players each control a demon lord in a royal rumble, and having the characters face the winner.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">My demon lords were resistant to +2 or less (or a weapon wielded by another demon lord or demigod), immune to +1 or less, had Rakshasa spell resistance (unless that spell cast by a peer, as above), proficiency in all saves, and increased AC and HP. It made for a halfway balanced battle in the end with Yeenoghu.</li> </ul>Kingmaker (Paizo)(16th)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The finale area was a fey realm ruled by a mythical being where the jabberwock and other fairy tale story critters (all foreshadowed from level 1 with kids singing songs about them) roamed. In fey world, nothing is permanent. The party learned that in 24 hours, the entire realm would reset. Every monster you slew would be back, every wall you breached restored (except if you took out the ruler as she set these rules). Every alliance you made, forgotten, and so on. It made for a fascinating trek as the party balanced resources vs. the time crunch. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Like above, the boss operated on phases for her finale battle.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3E had "teleportation traps" and I imported these. Kings and the uber powerful would ward their castles and bases with this spell which redirects your teleportation to, usually, a death trap.</li> </ul>Dragonlance original modules (16th)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Finale battle was all about the terrain/quest, finding a particular "foundation stone" amongst a massive chamber with dozens of columns to search. Meanwhile, a BBEG tried to thwart them, the party needed to keep the bad guys from wrestling a vital NPC (who while immortal could be restrained and his immortality ended if the bad guys took him to a particular room), deal with cultists who were imbuing the bad guys with blessings, and face endless mooks from the Abyss (the longer the battle drags on, the more come through). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">My BBEG could burn 5 HP a pop to shed an effect, inspired by A5E (whose character rules we used this campaign) monsters that could use legendary resistance but lost things like AC when they did (e.g. a dragon's scales cracked).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Summary: the finale wasn't about bashing Hit Points. High level PCs are insanely powerful, so something else needs to challenge them.</li> </ul>Curse of Strahd (10th)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This gets honorable mention. While 10th isn't epic, the finale should be. I worked up a boss who couldn't be beaten in his home lair (if run properly, his guerilla tactic of "strafe and withdraw to heal" should be invincible) unless the party learned, through research, lore, and NPCs, what causes a genius tactician to lose it. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It's guidance to Bosses 101. </li> </ul></blockquote>

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