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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9264674" data-attributes="member: 6684958">So other then an internet poll, the best I can do is the, er, 500 gamers within 100 miles or so.&nbsp; But even if I did that....it would still just be from the people I know, right?&nbsp; So, it kinda sounds like your saying &quot;no one can never say anything as they can't back it up with a poll&quot;.If you have gamed with more then a couple players it's odd you have never met a crybaby player.&nbsp; They are not that uncommon.&nbsp; And DM that bow and roll over for thier players are also common.&nbsp; Though it's also word play about what you see.&nbsp; If a DM &quot;somehow&quot; runs a game where the players are beyond happy all the time, you'd just say it's a &quot;great game&quot;.&nbsp; Of course, I'd look at it and say &quot;um, the DM is just doing what the players tell them too...so it's a bow DM game and the players won't cry as they always get whatever they want.&nbsp; You'd just say it's &quot;collaborative storytelling&quot; or something like that.&nbsp; So...then it kind of goes nowhere.I think this is more a social circle sort of thing.&nbsp; When you have a nice DM and nice players they all sit down and have a nice game.&nbsp; Everyone is on the same page, and agrees on nearly everything....so nobody rocks the boat.&nbsp; Know I never typed that...Magic words are real.&nbsp; A set type of people can be amazingly programed with the right words.I get that the &quot;twist&quot; of a lot of these games is to take the classic vague ambiguous RPG type game and make it more like board games, or poker or chess.&nbsp; In general, yes.&nbsp; The vast majority of gamers are Causal, it's not that they are &quot;bad&quot; people.....but they think of the game as just a &quot;random distraction&quot; for a couple hours.&nbsp; They don't want to &quot;think to hard&quot;...about a game.&nbsp; A lot of DMs are casual, and even more 5E D&amp;D pushes this type of game.&nbsp; Such DM just say &quot;there is a dragon over there, roll to attack&quot;&nbsp; and everyone has a fun game.My game is much more Old School.....and unlike any game the vast majority of players have ever seen.&nbsp; They get confused just as no dragon in my game &quot;just sit there waiting to be attacked&quot;.&nbsp; My dragon encounters are legendary, I ran over 20 summer pick up games for just this.&nbsp; The players get flabbergasted in my game when a dragon drops boulders on the PC....or throws them off a cliff.&nbsp; They have never seen that in a game before, they don't &quot;think about the game that way&quot;.&nbsp; For some, it can be an amazing eye opening experience.&nbsp; &nbsp; I have a SPelljammer game....made up of such (former) players.&nbsp; They rrally wanted a Spelljammer game....could not find a DM...so they asked me.&nbsp; And they agreed to my extreme game style.....and found it not to be so bad.&nbsp; They lost lots of characters at first, and we had a long season of their wrecked 'jammer.&nbsp; But they were able to adapt.&nbsp; Today, they are much different players...and the Spelljamming game goes on.I have no idea.&nbsp; Guess we'd have to game sometime.&nbsp; As DM the game reality is at &quot;my whim&quot;......&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I don't agree with the &quot;things should not happen at the DM's whim&quot;&nbsp; Why not?&nbsp; That is how the game works.&nbsp; I'd guess you'd want some explanation, but I don't think that is needed as it's pointless.&nbsp; I could make one up to keep a player happy, but I'd just make up whatever they wanted to hear.I'm not sure why you think this.&nbsp; I did not mention the other 101 ways as that is a lot to type.&nbsp; It's accurate.&nbsp; Well, I'm not looking to change my game at all.&nbsp; I and my 50 ish or so players are just fine and happy.This is the thing again.&nbsp; Some DM get players that are amazing founts of creativity and briliance.&nbsp; I get players&nbsp; that say &quot;I want to have fun&quot;.&nbsp; I want to know....&nbsp; They are both more casual DMs that would never go online to &quot;do RPG stuff&quot;, they just run and play RPG games.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9264674, member: 6684958"] So other then an internet poll, the best I can do is the, er, 500 gamers within 100 miles or so. But even if I did that....it would still just be from the people I know, right? So, it kinda sounds like your saying "no one can never say anything as they can't back it up with a poll". If you have gamed with more then a couple players it's odd you have never met a crybaby player. They are not that uncommon. And DM that bow and roll over for thier players are also common. Though it's also word play about what you see. If a DM "somehow" runs a game where the players are beyond happy all the time, you'd just say it's a "great game". Of course, I'd look at it and say "um, the DM is just doing what the players tell them too...so it's a bow DM game and the players won't cry as they always get whatever they want. You'd just say it's "collaborative storytelling" or something like that. So...then it kind of goes nowhere. I think this is more a social circle sort of thing. When you have a nice DM and nice players they all sit down and have a nice game. Everyone is on the same page, and agrees on nearly everything....so nobody rocks the boat. Know I never typed that... Magic words are real. A set type of people can be amazingly programed with the right words. I get that the "twist" of a lot of these games is to take the classic vague ambiguous RPG type game and make it more like board games, or poker or chess. In general, yes. The vast majority of gamers are Causal, it's not that they are "bad" people.....but they think of the game as just a "random distraction" for a couple hours. They don't want to "think to hard"...about a game. A lot of DMs are casual, and even more 5E D&D pushes this type of game. Such DM just say "there is a dragon over there, roll to attack" and everyone has a fun game. My game is much more Old School.....and unlike any game the vast majority of players have ever seen. They get confused just as no dragon in my game "just sit there waiting to be attacked". My dragon encounters are legendary, I ran over 20 summer pick up games for just this. The players get flabbergasted in my game when a dragon drops boulders on the PC....or throws them off a cliff. They have never seen that in a game before, they don't "think about the game that way". For some, it can be an amazing eye opening experience. I have a SPelljammer game....made up of such (former) players. They rrally wanted a Spelljammer game....could not find a DM...so they asked me. And they agreed to my extreme game style.....and found it not to be so bad. They lost lots of characters at first, and we had a long season of their wrecked 'jammer. But they were able to adapt. Today, they are much different players...and the Spelljamming game goes on. I have no idea. Guess we'd have to game sometime. As DM the game reality is at "my whim"...... I don't agree with the "things should not happen at the DM's whim" Why not? That is how the game works. I'd guess you'd want some explanation, but I don't think that is needed as it's pointless. I could make one up to keep a player happy, but I'd just make up whatever they wanted to hear. I'm not sure why you think this. I did not mention the other 101 ways as that is a lot to type. It's accurate. Well, I'm not looking to change my game at all. I and my 50 ish or so players are just fine and happy. This is the thing again. Some DM get players that are amazing founts of creativity and briliance. I get players that say "I want to have fun". I want to know.... They are both more casual DMs that would never go online to "do RPG stuff", they just run and play RPG games. [/QUOTE]

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