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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6397000" data-attributes="member: 6778044">I'd agree with giving a roll at a locked door, and that the penalty for doing so is that they can't get through the door. I suspect the Angry DM would too. The real question is whether there should be a locked door there at all. But you do need some locked doors going to empty rooms because otherwise they'd know that if the door is locked there MUST be something there, even if they didn't detect it through other means first. Just don't overdo it.I don't think you want to start with a base 10 for all rolls, anymore than you want to with attack rolls where you have proficiency. The proficiency bonus, plus ability modifiers, plus other things (like expertise), can get you to a base of 10 relatively quickly anyway. Expertise in thief's tools (+4) with an 18 DEX gives even a 1st level thief +8 so the minimum roll would be a 9 anyway.Although not written in the rules, I would not allow an attempt to pick locks for anybody who is not proficient in thief's tools. Pick up a padlock and try it sometime. Anybody can become proficient in thief's tools, so you don't always have to have a rogue in the party. On the other hand, there's more than one way to get past a locked door so I don't feel it's necessary to ensure that every party can choose to pick the lock.Instead of rolling multiple time, just roll to see how much time it takes to succeed. There's not any point in rolling over and over again. A simple option for this would be to say it takes x number of minutes per point of failure. So if it's a DC 20 and they rolled a 16, it takes 4 minutes for them to successfully pick the lock. This was the point of the old 'take 10' and 'take 20' rules. That 1st level thief with a +8 bonus would eventually roll a 20, meaning they could handle any lock with a DC of 28 or lower. In the 3rd ed taking 20 took 2 minutes if it would normally take 1 round. I prefer a variable amount of time.On the other hand, if there's a situation where successfully picking the lock must be done in a certain amount of time, then making a check every round until successful can be very suspenseful and is worthwhile. For example, the room is filling with water and the 3' thick stone door can't be kicked in, and you have 5 rounds before you're under water, and then a few more rounds before people start drowning, yes, multiple checks are essential.In the example of a party trying to sneak undetected, even if there is no chance of success I'd probably still roll a check. You may know they will fail, but they won't. Even if you don't call a natural 20 an automatic success, it could provide a success long enough for a second check. If they keep rolling 20's then maybe they SHOULD succeed, regardless of the difficulty. Note that there are specific rules for group checks on pg 175, instead of going with the worst character's abilities (they all roll, and if half or more succeed, then they all succeed).Ilbranteloth</blockquote>

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