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<blockquote data-quote="Kingreaper" data-source="post: 4811806" data-attributes="member: 83870">It doesn't have to be no win, if it's done right.&nbsp;If they save their home base, when it would otherwise be destroyed; that's a win.&nbsp;If they make it so the ritual remakes the world, but the lich's people cannot return to conquer; that's a win.&nbsp;If they make it so that the Lich must sacrifice himself for the ritual to reach completion; that's a win.&nbsp;Just because it's not an all-win, doesn't mean it's no-win.&nbsp;But it's very important to make sure that some things can be won, and that these are things the players care about.&nbsp;&nbsp;Definitely avoid the Xanatos Gambit. &quot;Good job breaking it hero&quot; is one of the worst endings. And it's very frustrating and railroady, unless done really well.&nbsp;&nbsp;EDIT: I see you have a Xanatos in place. I also see that you're planning on using quantum railroading.I like quantum railroading for things like minor encounters, getting new quests etc. but when it's the fate of the world at stake?&quot;You thought destroying the gem was a good idea; you destroyed the world&quot;&quot;You decided to steal the gem; you destroyed the world&quot;What if they don't take the gem? Is it going to be:&quot;You didn't destroy that gem; the world has been destroyed&quot;?Because if not, the only way they can avoid being dupes, and counterproductive, is to ruin your story.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kingreaper, post: 4811806, member: 83870"] It doesn't have to be no win, if it's done right. If they save their home base, when it would otherwise be destroyed; that's a win. If they make it so the ritual remakes the world, but the lich's people cannot return to conquer; that's a win. If they make it so that the Lich must sacrifice himself for the ritual to reach completion; that's a win. Just because it's not an all-win, doesn't mean it's no-win. But it's very important to make sure that some things can be won, and that these are things the players care about. Definitely avoid the Xanatos Gambit. "Good job breaking it hero" is one of the worst endings. And it's very frustrating and railroady, unless done really well. EDIT: I see you have a Xanatos in place. I also see that you're planning on using quantum railroading. I like quantum railroading for things like minor encounters, getting new quests etc. but when it's the fate of the world at stake? "You thought destroying the gem was a good idea; you destroyed the world" "You decided to steal the gem; you destroyed the world" What if they don't take the gem? Is it going to be: "You didn't destroy that gem; the world has been destroyed"? Because if not, the only way they can avoid being dupes, and counterproductive, is to ruin your story. [/QUOTE]

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