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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mad Hamish" data-source="post: 5639631" data-attributes="member: 25321">Got a rules cite for that?Because I haven't seen anything in the rules stating it.Also here's your position from the post on Yesterday 06:13 PM"Charm spells are a bit different. If you fail your save you won't know you're enchanted until the spell expires."which reads as stating that you will know you were enchanted once the spell has expiredParty member or not doesn't come into it.Magic is being used to change how somebody feels and it's likely to be extremely apparent to the person who was affected that something changed how they felt immediately after the wizard cast a spell and a few hours later they can't see any reason why their attitude changed.a) the knowledge of the existance of spells that affect the mind and perception will be pretty much universal in darmned near any campaignb) "wizard cast spell which did nothing I could see" -> "me mind changed""wizard enchanted kobold earlier", "maybe wizard enchanted me"if you are saying that you can't possible connect those facts unless you have spellcraft I will disagree unless you have a very clear rules cite.</blockquote>